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Stuck Cub

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Mifsud

08-15-2007 19:19:12




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Brought home a nice 1948 Cub today. Was stored for some 15 years in a Barn. Totally clean and complete. Tires like new. Anti freeze in Radiator. Good clean oil. Only thing is it is stuck. Found this out as we pulled her a little on some dirt. Now its been asked before , but what is a good process to go thru to try to free her up. I have time to let her sit as Iam working on an M. Thanks for any help

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banjo

08-16-2007 11:15:02




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to Mifsud, 08-15-2007 19:19:12  
just thought i'd add that the cub engines do not have sleeves.



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georgeky

08-16-2007 13:04:59




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to banjo, 08-16-2007 11:15:02  
banjo, you are right. The Cub doesn't have any. I keep forgetting that as one(gramps's) is all I have ever taken apart.



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georgeky

08-15-2007 23:16:14




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to Mifsud, 08-15-2007 19:19:12  
It could just be stuck valves. When I went to the Army my old C sat outside for 3 or 4 years. When I tried to start it she was stuck. I started with the starter and went to the valve cover and had a couple af valves stuck closed and it would not turn over a bit. I soaked them in tranny fluid for a couple days and pecked on them with a hammer and the old gal come right around. The Cub has valves in the block, so it is a little different, but could be the problem.

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Aaron B

08-15-2007 22:32:56




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to Mifsud, 08-15-2007 19:19:12  
Being stored indoors could mean it's not stuck too badly. you can soak the pistons in ATF, or penetrating oil, or even rubbing alcohol. PUt the trans into high gear and rock it back and forth every couple days, keeping an eye on the flywheel for any movement.



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Andy Motteberg

08-15-2007 20:14:31




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to Mifsud, 08-15-2007 19:19:12  
Don't take the motor apart yet. Remove the spark plugs and put brake fluid and/or PB Blaster in the cylinders. I've gotten many engines loose doing this.

Andy.



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old

08-15-2007 21:20:12




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to Andy Motteberg, 08-15-2007 20:14:31  
Andy is brake fuild or PB has worked for you then you should try tranny fluid it works better and faster and cost less then half of what you have been useing. So far out of 20 plus enignes in the last 3 years only 2 haven't broke free for me with tranny fluid.



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Andy Motteberg

08-17-2007 05:44:13




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to old, 08-15-2007 21:20:12  
old, I have read your posts about putting in ATF. I filled the cylinders on our B John Deere, let it soak a LONG time and it did not work. I even tried using different brands, (Holiday, MAG 1, Valvoline, etc.) I had to remove the cylinder head and remove all the transmission fluid in order to soak it in something else. I need to buy some PB Blaster. I buy the brake fluid for $1.00. The tractor is soaking in Marvel Mystery Oil penetrant now, it soaks down the sides of the pistons, but does not seem to break it loose. Sorry, but I have never had any luck with tranny fluid, tried it in several engines.

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old

08-17-2007 08:27:27




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to Andy Motteberg, 08-17-2007 05:44:13  
You most have gotten some of the real bad ones then and if so then nothing will work short of takeing them all apart. I have had 2 like that and it took my 12 ton shop press to get the pistons out of them



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the Unforgiven

08-16-2007 07:22:52




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to old, 08-15-2007 21:20:12  
Huh?? How much faster? How much cheaper? If you have a dry stick engine it does not matter what you pour in there, ATF, motor oil, Kroil, PB etc. any of them will break it loose, because it is not very stuck. I used ATF for years, right up until about 15 years ago when I purchased my first can of PB. I tore into an engine that had been on it's side for 75 years in a pasture, with the ignitor missing so it also had mice in the cylinder. Not one moving part that would move. Lots of heat, oils, tapping, fires in the cylinder, built a blank head so I could leave 200 psi of air in the cylinder non-stop while it was not being worked on, and after working it some almost every day for three months the piston came out. I have cooked entire engines in an electolysis bath for a month before I even tried oiling anything. I pulled a dry stick 8n out of a shed, sliding the rear wheels all the way, pulled the head and hosed it down with PB, and about five minutes later reached down and turned the front pulley with my hands. Sure it was not stuck bad, but now you are telling me that if I had used ATF it would have turned in three minutes instead of five?? That is like saying if you use this color air hose it will fill your tires better! Tie into something really rusty that is so obsolete that you can not find used parts and come back and tell me how much better ATF is than anything else. Here is my theory-when someone has been fighting a piston for a month using PB, Kroil, Liquid Wrench, ATF, diesel, and any other snake oil to no avail and someone comes in and sprinkles rose petals on it right before the piston breaks loose, they will swear by the rose petals, not the oil they have been using. Do not mistake this for any kind of personal attack, I just don't see how you can make such a narrow statement over and over again. Save up some money and buy a can of Rapid Tap cutting fluid, it may outperfom any of them.

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old

08-16-2007 09:17:39




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to the Unforgiven, 08-16-2007 07:22:52  
Well since I have been working on engines on and off since I was 18, some 30 plus years ago I have tried it all coke, oil, diesel, etc. etc. and have found out none have ever worked as well as tranny fluid. AS for cost a can of PB will run you $3-4 and a cheap wally world tranny fluid less then $2 and you get 2 or 3 times as much. And since you trhow away the tranny fluid when done why spend so mush to do the same thing. Ya it doesn't always work and nothing will, but if its going to pop free tranny fluid is more likely to do it then most other things plus it does remove rust and soaks in where plan oil will not

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the Unforgiven

08-16-2007 13:26:11




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to old, 08-16-2007 09:17:39  
I have been working on them just as long as you have, probably have employed many of the same methods, and I think PB is the best. My opinion. But I don't think I could tell someone who has just freed an engine using ATF that it would have been faster using PB, there is just no way to tell that unless you are testing indentical pieces and retesting to make sure you are accurate. Whatever works for you works for you, I don't quite see it being "more likely" based on the fact that you like to use it. Considering the fact that you can probably apply PB or Gibbs or Kroil to the rings as well as every visible bolt on the tractor in moments with the same aerosol can and not have a dripping oily mess, the aerosols might be cheaper. I would buy the PB if the ATF was free, just my opinion.

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old

08-16-2007 13:43:05




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to the Unforgiven, 08-16-2007 13:26:11  
Well to tell the truth there would be no way to test which does work better because theres not way that any 2 engine/bolts are stuck the same. But as I said I have tried both and for my money tranny fluid stays. Yes I do use PB at times for bolts that I can't get the tranny fluid on easy. Plus I figure I can buy 2 qts. of tranny fluid for 1-12oz. can of PB and my money doesn't grow on trees and I have to watch where it goes since theres always more month then money

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JT

08-16-2007 07:13:15




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to old, 08-15-2007 21:20:12  
Rich,
How long does your tranny fluid treatment take. I have an H that has had tranny fluid in it for over 6 weeks, and it is not loose yet.
Jim



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Nat 2

08-16-2007 10:33:56




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to JT, 08-16-2007 07:13:15  
It takes what it takes... It may take a few hours. It may take months. There is no one set length of time.

I'd be getting impatient right about now, and I'd be pulling the head to see what's in there.



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old

08-16-2007 09:03:55




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to JT, 08-16-2007 07:13:15  
If its sat that long most likely it will never pop free. Most likely had a lot of water get into one or 2 of the pistons and if that has happened its open it up time. As I said I have done 20 plus and 2 didn't pop loose and those 2 had gotten water in to the cylinders from an open exhaust and they never did pop loose with out pressing the pistons out of the sleeves. The point I was making is that tranny fluid works better then any thing else I have ever used and I've been unlock stuck engine for 20 plus years and have tried it all

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georgeky

08-16-2007 07:47:33




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to JT, 08-16-2007 07:13:15  
Then you need new sleeves and pistons. In cases were these old gals are stuck bad and have been for years or full of water, they are going to need new sleeves to ever do the job right. If you had driven those pistons sleeves and all out you could have had your tractor running by now.



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Pat-CT

08-15-2007 19:43:40




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to Mifsud, 08-15-2007 19:19:12  
i dont know if you want to pull the motor apart but i hear lighting rags on fire under the piston works really good i have not tried it tho so i cant say what it will do or how it will work



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gene bender

08-15-2007 19:41:57




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to Mifsud, 08-15-2007 19:19:12  
Take the starter out as it wouldnt be the first time that starter was stuck and wouldnt let the engine turn over.



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old

08-15-2007 19:38:53




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to Mifsud, 08-15-2007 19:19:12  
Fill the cylinders with tranny fluid. Always put the plugs back in to keep dirt etc out of the cylinders. If it has an up right exahust also pour about half a bottle of tranny fluid in the exhaust since that will help get it to the valves. Let it sit a couple weeks and then set a battery in it and try the starter. Don't hold the starter button but use short fast taps on it and doing so will pop one free most of the time. You can also put the hand starter crank in and hang some weights o it if it sits the right place and that helps brake them free also.

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Wisconsin Cowman

08-15-2007 19:26:19




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 Re: Stuck Cub in reply to Mifsud, 08-15-2007 19:19:12  
I would remove the spark plugs and but Atf in the holes and let it sit for a while and see what happens.



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A. Bohemian

08-16-2007 09:44:51




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 FWIW I Wouldn't Pull it Any More Just Yet in reply to Wisconsin Cowman, 08-15-2007 19:26:19  
I read this thread briefly and didn't see this mentioned. I apologize if it WAS mentioned and I missed it.

Perhaps you shouldn't pull the tractor any more until you get the engine unstuck. This CAN potentially damage the crank and other associated parts.

I don't know if a '48 Cub has accomodations for a hand crank, but I suspect it does. If it does, find one and try to get the engine to turn over with that.

Others may know of other, better methods. And, I'm sure many will report they have broken loose stuck engines by pulling them for many years with no problem.

But I think a quick poll would find a solid concensus that it is risky business to pull a stuck tractor to try to get it unstuck.

Good luck and keep us posted.

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