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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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M Head update, dang luck

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terryjd98

08-13-2007 19:55:59




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Hi all Got the report on the M head today, wasn't good news it has 2 cracks in it. Guess anti freeze was getting into the oil after all. Going to have to hunt for a good head now. Was thinking about going with a 450 head, cam, pistons to give it a bit of extra power at the antique pulls but looks like thats going to be over my budget. Also it does have studs and nuts not head bolts in it guess I just am use to the term head bolt. Anybody know a good supplier in Canada to get a head? Would get one from the USA also just shipping would be more but need a head so will have to get one where ever I can. The head that was on it had the number 8574 DC on it so guess would like one the same number if I can. Don't know what would make the head crack all the tractor does is plow some snow in the winter and a few pulls in the summer. Oh well way my luck goes. Thanks for your help Terry

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D Slater

08-14-2007 14:32:16




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to terryjd98, 08-13-2007 19:55:59  
If I remember correct the 8574 DC head is newer than your tractor. It had some improvments over 8574 DB and the 8060 DC head, Metal treatment and thickness. May want to get yours repaired with just 2 cracks, unless you find a good one easy or want to get a head with smaller combustion chambers like used on 400 or 450 series tractors.



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GordoSD

08-14-2007 07:53:51




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to terryjd98, 08-13-2007 19:55:59  
Reconditioned to like new heads are available. They run close to 400 dollars. They are done in Iowa. I'm coming up fishing in two weeks, where are you?

Gordo



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terryjd98

08-14-2007 14:49:25




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to GordoSD, 08-14-2007 07:53:51  
I would be interested in a reconditioned head might be just as cheap as getting this head repaired. Not too many Machine shops around this area with knowlage of fixing tractor heads. Will call around though and see if there happens to be one that can do the job. Do you have a phone number and company name for them? doesn't cost much to call and find out a price for sure and see what shipping would be. The number on the head is 8574DC and it seemed to work good so would like to get a head with the same number. I am in Eastern Ontario Canada between Ottawa and Kingston. My email is open if you would prefer to email me the information. Thanks Terry

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maplehillfrm,pat

08-14-2007 05:09:09




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to terryjd98, 08-13-2007 19:55:59  
is the head for a H diffrent? I have one that I need to get rid of it has been rebuilt by a shop and never put on a tractor, I no longer have the tractor so its going to be available for sale,



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georgeky

08-14-2007 07:42:47




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to maplehillfrm,pat, 08-14-2007 05:09:09  
A lot different. The M engine is almost twice the size of an H engine.



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maplehillfrm,pat

08-14-2007 08:01:16




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to georgeky, 08-14-2007 07:42:47  
thanks



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Jason Simmerman

08-14-2007 04:51:22




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to terryjd98, 08-13-2007 19:55:59  
Sorry but don't mean to hyjack this thread but I'm curious. Why can't you put 450 pistons into a M block. Now, I understand with the SM pistons you have to bore the block for the SM sleeves and so on, but why can you not step it up one more step and take it to the 4 1/8" bore? Maybe there is something that I'm unaware of that's actually different in the core casting of the blocks?



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D Slater

08-14-2007 14:58:42




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to Jason Simmerman, 08-14-2007 04:51:22  
The sleeves from a C 264 and C281 engine will fit both. These sleeves are to big on the OD to go in a M block without boreing block. M sleeves are to small on the OD for C 264 and C 281 blocks. Some 4 1/8 pistons can be used in a M block by running dirrect on block without sleeves. Best to use a filler in block cutout for sleeve flange when sleeveless. A good M block will last good like that and if you happen to wear it out so it needs bored agian, just bore it for the SM,400,450 size sleeve OD. Later M blocks are better for this. Lots of SM,400, tractors are previously equiped with thinwall sleeves and 4 1/8 piston diameter. Some with large piston pin diameter and some with small pin.

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georgeky

08-14-2007 07:51:12




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to Jason Simmerman, 08-14-2007 04:51:22  
Super M or 400 pistons(4 inch) are for a 264 inch displacement. They can be added to a straight M(3 7/8) simply by installing new sleeves to fit those pistons. I have 2 now with SM/400 pistons in them. Now 450 pistons(4 1/8) are a full 1/4 inch larger than M pistons and the bore in the block will not except those sleeves. The block may be able to be bored to fit them, but I don't know for sure. 450 or 4 1/8 inch pistons and sleeves will fit a C-264 block(SM/400)without any machine work.

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RJ-Wi

08-14-2007 04:04:01




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to terryjd98, 08-13-2007 19:55:59  
The reason your head is cracked is the fact that these tractors are old and the heads have been heated up and cooled down thosands of times and have suffered metal fatigue and they then crack. Most of the M"s and lots of the H"s that I work on end up having cracked heads anymore.GEORGEKY is right on, a good machine shop can usually repair these cracks.



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georgeky

08-14-2007 13:18:31




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to RJ-Wi, 08-14-2007 04:04:01  
I had the head off one of my M's gone over a few years ago and my machine shop guy told me it had been repaired 7 or 8 times in the past, but it was as good as new.



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georgeky

08-13-2007 20:45:33




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to terryjd98, 08-13-2007 19:55:59  
A good machine shop should be able to fix that head. If you want more power you can only go with 400 pistons. as 450 pistons will not fit an M. The head you want is a 8060 or the 400/450 head which I cant find the number on right now.



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terryjd98

08-14-2007 14:51:43




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to georgeky, 08-13-2007 20:45:33  
Is there any power gain by using a 400/450 head or would it just be the same as what the M head would give? Thanks Terry



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georgeky

08-14-2007 16:09:14




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 Re: M Head update, dang luck in reply to terryjd98, 08-14-2007 14:51:43  
Yes some. It will increase the compression.



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