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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super M amp gauge dance

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George T.

08-13-2007 19:22:29




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I have a Super M . The amp gauge seems to work well at lower RPM but really jumps around when the throttle is applied. It does seem to be charging. It has a new voltage regulator and the wiring is good. At an very low idle it will go to the negative side but just a little RPM and it will go to the charge side until more speed is added, then it starts it’s dance all over the place. I did check the ground on the cover box where the gauge is mounted. I did open the voltage regulator and noticed the points sparking when the gauge is jumping. They seem to hold tight at lower speeds.
Any ideas???

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vally farm

08-14-2007 22:00:56




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 Re: Super M amp gauge dance in reply to George T., 08-13-2007 19:22:29  
My Super H started doing that, around a month later the starter quit. Turned out I had NO brushes left. It is a quick check, just pull the cover off the starter. New brushes and the gauge is rock solid again. Mike



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Cityboy-McCoy

08-14-2007 10:23:21




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 Re: Super M amp gauge dance in reply to George T., 08-13-2007 19:22:29  
I don't know, but my super A does basically the same thing, except it is stable at low idle and stable at high throttle. At mid throttle it oscillates some. I just figured it was normal. mike



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Paul Shuler

08-13-2007 20:28:03




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 Re: Super M amp gauge dance in reply to George T., 08-13-2007 19:22:29  
I am so glad you asked that. I was sitting down to write the same thing. My H has never charged since I've owned it. After much work and help from John T and Bob M and two trips to Accurate electric { the folks that rebuild the genny} it now charges as of Saturday. Mowed for 4 hours in 100 degree weather just to watch my amp meter work for the first time. I wouldn't say mine dances but as I add speed it does shake some. When I watched close it would shake between like one and three amps but never shake more than that. My cub and Super C don't do this shaking at all. My genny and regulator are all new and most of my wires are all new, The amp gauge itself is as old as the tractor I suspect. How do you check for a good ground at the amp box?

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George T.

08-14-2007 02:55:47




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 Re: Super M amp gauge dance in reply to Paul Shuler, 08-13-2007 20:28:03  
I was told that it is critical that the cover that the amp gauge is mounted in, has to have a good ground contact with the rest of the oval box that it is mounted to. So towards the bottom I ran a small grounding wire that is screwed to the cover and the box itself.



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Bob M

08-14-2007 06:47:11




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 Re: Super M amp gauge dance in reply to George T., 08-14-2007 02:55:47  
George – Presuming your Super M has a stock charging system w/voltage regulator, it doesn’t matter whether the ammeter box/cover has a good ground. Ammeter box grounding is critical only on the older Farmalls equipped a cut-out relay and manual charge control (4 position) light switch which grounds the generator field circuit thru the light switch.

----

As Paul mentions above some vibration or “dancing” of the ammeter with the engine running at speed is completely normal. So also is light sparking at the voltage regulator relay contacts.

However if the ammeter swings all over the place here's a few possible causes:

1 - A poorly damped ammeter movement will swing wildly even though the charging system is working perfectly.

You can test damping by bringing a small magnet near the face of the ammeter and moving it around to make the hand deflect either way. Then quickly pull the magnet away. If the hand swings back and forth like a windshield wiper several times before settling back at 0, poor damping is the cause. The only fix is to replace the ammeter.

2 - Poor ground between the regulator and the tractor.

3 - Loose or badly worn generator brushes, worn commutator or worn armature end bushing.

4 - Faulty regulator. (Not every new regulator works as it should – especially the *&^%@# “made in China” imports!)

5 - Loose generator drive belt. However a loose belt will generally cause the ammeter hand to move slowly back and forth as the belt alternately slips then catches.

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George T.

08-14-2007 10:19:30




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 Re: Super M amp gauge dance in reply to Bob M, 08-14-2007 06:47:11  
Great suggestions Bob. I can’t wait to give the magnet test a try. That could very well be the case. I did happen to notice it move when tapping on the box it’s mounted in.



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John T

08-13-2007 19:41:36




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 Re: Super M amp gauge dance in reply to George T., 08-13-2007 19:22:29  
I dont like an ammeter to jump n dance around either. Some possible causes are:

Worn brushes,,,,, weak or stuck/corroded brush hold down spring assemblies,,,,, ,,worn genny commutator to the point the mica seperating segments arent sufficiently undercut making the brushes bounce,,,,, ,,,,, burned/carboned VR contacts,,,,, ,loose ground or loose/corroded wiring connections,,,,, ,bad VR mount making a loose or intermittent ground..... LOTS MORE BUT THESE ARE TYPICAL CAUSES ID CHECK FIRST

John T

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George T.

08-14-2007 02:58:25




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 Re: Super M amp gauge dance in reply to John T, 08-13-2007 19:41:36  
Thanks John.
I will start checking all of your ideas one by one. It could very well be the generator itself. It is old and even though it does charge it is weak.



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