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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Farmall B alternator/ammeter

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Dave H (MI)

07-31-2007 19:21:54




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Don't know if I have a problem or not. Just seems like the battery don't last long! This gauge on the little box with the light switch. It just sits at dead center all the time and doesn't move either way. How does one check an alternator and, for that matter, how does one tell if the gauge is working? Thanks!




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Dave H (MI)

08-01-2007 09:06:40




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 Re: Farmall B alternator/ammeter in reply to Dave H (MI), 07-31-2007 19:21:54  
Wow/whew!!! I'll take all this out there and see what I can sort out. Maybe this evening I will get a little time. I thought I had it nailed when she started running again but I guess my education continues! Most fun I have had in a while, though! I will keep you posted. Thanks guys!



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Bob M

08-01-2007 06:45:43




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 Re: Farmall B alternator/ammeter in reply to Dave H (MI), 07-31-2007 19:21:54  
Dave - As John T mentions it's not unusual for an old ammeter to stick with the hand in the center position. A quick test is to bring a small magnet near the ammeter face then move the magnet around. If the ammeter hand is free it will deflect left/right as the magnet is moved around.

But since the battery is going dead it sounds like also the alternator is not working. Could be it's wired wrong (the fact the ammeter does not show discharge as the battery runs down suggests this). Could also be the alternator itself is bad.

Best test would be to remove the alternator and take it to the nearest NAPA, AutoZone or local starter/generator shop. They can put it on a test stand and in about 30 seconds can you whether the alternator is functional.

If it's determined the alternator is OK then be looking for a wiring problem. And if not it's time to replace the alternator!

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El Toro

08-01-2007 06:22:31




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 Re: Farmall B alternator/ammeter in reply to Dave H (MI), 07-31-2007 19:21:54  
Take a volt meter set on DC voltage and measure the charging voltage at your battery with the engine at about 3/4 throttle. Should read around 14 to 14.5 volts. Hal



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John T

08-01-2007 05:50:53




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 Re: Farmall B alternator/ammeter in reply to Dave H (MI), 07-31-2007 19:21:54  
Dave, Plenty of old ammeters have a stuck needle n dont deflect in either direction. As posted below it ought to deflect to - discharge if the lights or ignition are turned on when shes NOT running then, of course, swing over to + charge at RPM if all is working. If you dont have a voltmeter to place on the battery (battery voltage should rise from 12.6 to the 13 n over 14 volt range if shes charging properly) the lights should brighten noticeably from slow idle to high RPM if shes charging.

Sure the ammeter is even wired in and wired correct??? The Supply side terminal (only one wire there usually) connects to the hot ungrounded battery post, often by a wire from the starter switch or solenoid where the big battery cable connects. Then alllll lll loads like lights n ignition PLUS the alternators output connect to the ammeters other Load side terminal.

If the battery is good (have it load tested) but it runs down n requires re charging, sounds like theres a charging or wiring problem. I dont have much in the way of alternator troubleshooting tips, Im more into generators, but Bob M or Jim or the other Bob may have some troubleshootign tips on them. I simply see if the lights glow brighter from slow idle to fast RPM (means shes charging) or use a voltmeter on the battery AFTER Im sure all is wired correct..... ..

John T

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gene bender

08-01-2007 02:08:26




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 Re: Farmall B alternator/ammeter in reply to Dave H (MI), 07-31-2007 19:21:54  
simple just measure the voltage at the battery when engine is stopped then measure the voltage when engine is running at the alt or gen whatever you have dont need a long sermon as it is just that simple. sounds like someone has mess with the system if you think you have an alt as there would be no reason the go to 12v on a little B. But hardly a day goes by without some one changing a system and screwing it up with problems keep it simple and original much easier to fix.

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Janicholson

07-31-2007 20:50:27




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 Re: Farmall B alternator/ammeter in reply to Dave H (MI), 07-31-2007 19:21:54  
John T and Bob M (both experts) have compiled great diagnostic tools and diagrams. Look in the archives (search for) and you will be very comforted. It is not charging. Teady below is correct, the amp meter is not going to flinch with the starter, it is not connected to the circuit. The lights may be wired wrong, see the diagrams. Good luck, JimN



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John T

08-01-2007 05:57:46




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 Re: Farmall B alternator/ammeter in reply to Janicholson, 07-31-2007 20:50:27  
Jim, I dont have any handy dandy alternator troubleshooting procedures like I do on Gennys (Im NOT alternator certified lol). I thought yourself or one of the Bobs have the screwdriver and magnetism test etc for alternators????? I just do the see if the lights get brighter or the battery voltage rises n if not try a substitute internal regulator or replace it grrrrr rrr

Take care

John T

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Wisconsin Cowman

07-31-2007 19:53:56




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 Re: Farmall B alternator/ammeter in reply to Dave H (MI), 07-31-2007 19:21:54  
Hook up a volt meter up to the battery and see it is charging.



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ScottyHOMEy

07-31-2007 19:53:33




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 Re: Farmall B alternator/ammeter in reply to Dave H (MI), 07-31-2007 19:21:54  
If the ammeter is working and hooked up properly it should show a discharge with the engine off and the lights on. It should also drag down when you hit the starter, ignition on or off.

Put a charger on your battery overnight and see if it runs okay for a while the next time you run it. That'd be a tip. And, if you get a few minutes in between those extended returns you're workin' on, give a look at Bob's diagrams for the 12v setups. Strikin' me more and more as a good place to start.

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teddy52food

07-31-2007 20:09:57




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 Re: Farmall B alternator/ammeter in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 07-31-2007 19:53:33  
Ampmeter should not show when using the starter. Anpmeter is only for 20 or 30 amps whereas the starter curcuit is in hundreds of amps.



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A. Bohemian

08-01-2007 07:54:00




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 Look at That Static Discharge! in reply to teddy52food, 07-31-2007 20:09:57  
All you have to do to test the ammeter is turn on the ignition.

We usually think of static discharge as an expenditure of electrostatic energy stored in our bodies and clothing, usually between a doorknob and the nerve endings of our fingers (''Ouch! Darn!'').

Static discharge can ALSO refer to the normal discharge which occurs in a Kettering ignition system with the ignition on and the engine at rest (or STATIC). A discharge occurs because the points are closed, completeing the path to ground through them.

Most original 6-volt Kettering systems on Farmalls show a static discharge of about 4 amps. If you have an alternator you probably have a non-standard ignition system (12 volt conversion), but UNLESS an electronic ignition has ALSO been installed, you should see a static dishcharge of some kind in the range of 2-4 amps.

So, turn on the ignition. If the meter does not deflect to show a slight discharge it is stuck, or (more likely in a 12-volt conversion of unkown quality) disconnected because the person doing the conversion didn't know how to make it read properly after the polarity switch (simple).

If the tractor does have points, it would NOT be running if the static discharge were NOT present. So a properly connected and functioning ammeter MUST show it.

If the meter has NOT been connected properly, and you didn't do the conversion yourself, be suspicious of the whole conversion job, as most people who understand these systems know how useful an ammeter is and will make sure it is in circuit and functioning properly before they deliver the job to a customer. Read the procedures and tips for conversions on these boards and elsewhere and take a good look at yours.

Remember, if the ammeter is disconnected, you've already found ONE thing you need to fix...

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