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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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856 guzzler or sipper?

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Red Greenhorn

07-25-2007 14:13:37




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Greetings gentlemen! I've been skulking about this forum for the past couple of weeks, and I must say that the level of knowledge possessed and shared by you fellows is of definite wealth. I came here seeking knowledge and have been richly rewarded simply by lurking and reading. A sincere tipping of my hat and raising of my glass to all of you.

I have a question however, that I've not seen addressed in my reading so far, so I thought I'd tap into that knowledge base in an effort to find the answer.

I'm a wet behind the ears tractor fan, my sole experience to this point amounting to a couple of years with a Ford 800 doing chore-type work around the homestead a number of years ago. Fast forward to the present, and I find myself very much interested in acquiring a 1969 856 with a diesel between the rails that I've come upon. The serial plate lists the model as F 856 sans the "D" that I've seen on other diesel equipped machines. My question: Is it an airtight rule that the serial plate would always denote a factory diesel with a "D" on the plate, or was it a "fast and loose" rule that allowed for some variance? Obviously, what I'm wondering is if this beast was born as a gas guzzler and at some point was reborn as an oil sipper. Any light that can be shed will be greatly appreciated. Thanks gents.

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K.B.-826

07-25-2007 20:15:03




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Red Greenhorn, 07-25-2007 14:13:37  
IH changed their serial number format around '69 or '70. They quit using the model number suffix letters, and added a bunch of coding in front of the actual serial number. You will not find the "D" for diesel, the "S" for TA, or the "Y" for 12 gpm hyd pump on these later tags as you commonly would on an early model. What does your serial number line read? If it starts out something like 200 and has the letter "U" (for United States built) right before the actual serial number, you've got the late serial number format.

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Red Greenhorn

07-25-2007 20:55:12




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to K.B.-826, 07-25-2007 20:15:03  
K.B., You've supplied the golden ring of info that I've been seeking. It was the lack of the "D" that had left me wondering. The tag is indeed the later style format, which I've seen in prior research on this site referred to as the "KIND and CODE" format.

Further research here and elsewhere though has so far proven fruitless in deciphering the data of the "KIND" or "CODE" portion of the tag, which reads as "2610142" followed of course by "U" then the actual serial. Do you know the info to crack the kind and code mystery? You've answered my original question concerning the lack of the "D" which I much appreciate, now if my curiosity about the kind and code data can be satisfied it'll be icing on the cake. I surmise that such info can be found in certain books and texts relating to all things IH/Farmall, but being a neophyte I've no data library to refer to. Thanks much.

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Weldon K

07-26-2007 07:44:04




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Red Greenhorn, 07-25-2007 20:55:12  
My 1969 F856 D CU is serial # 23179 . What is yours?



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chuck46

07-26-2007 21:26:42




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Weldon K, 07-26-2007 07:44:04  
Hi, Mine was bought in June of 69 it is F856D CU 22759. Hope you have liked yours as well as I have, it has 16,000 hrs. is the last tractor I would part with. Chuck



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Red Greenhorn

07-26-2007 08:17:23




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Weldon K, 07-26-2007 07:44:04  
The '69 856 that I've got my eye on carries serial #29929.



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Red Greenhorn

07-27-2007 06:30:05




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Weldon K, 07-26-2007 19:06:51  
That's interesting Weldon. I had used a different serial number source to determine the year of manufacture.



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K.B.-826

07-25-2007 21:40:36




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Red Greenhorn, 07-25-2007 20:55:12  
I don't know exacly what it all means. Part of it I know denoted that the tractor was an International Harverster built machine, and part of it denoted the factory, which of course would be Rock Island, IL. I don't think there was any machine-specific info in there. Hopefully one of the guys that worked at the factory will chime in. Mabey try starting a new post with something like "Kind and Code Serial Number" in the subject line.

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Red Greenhorn

07-25-2007 21:58:41




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to K.B.-826, 07-25-2007 21:40:36  
I'm sure you're correct K.B. in that at least part of the "kind and code" digits would denote general manufacturer data such as you've mentioned. I had pondered whether or not there could be machine-specific data contained therein, but given that there are only 7 digits that precede the country code I'd be inclined to agree with you that there isn't, there's seemingly not enough digits to provide such information in any detail. It would be nice to hear from a former employee as you mentioned in order to shed more light on the subject if for no other reason than to satisfy my sometimes overactive curiosity. At any rate, I'm satisfied that the mystery of the missing "D" has been solved. Thanks again my friend.

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the tractor vet

07-25-2007 18:30:03




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Red Greenhorn, 07-25-2007 14:13:37  
If she has the D then she was built as a Diesel not some Barnyard engineering . And they were 100 PTO Hp. with a D407 direct injection engine .



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Hugh MacKay

07-25-2007 17:08:03




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Red Greenhorn, 07-25-2007 14:13:37  
Red: This would be much easier had you told us what you plan to do with a tractor. This 856 is 95 hp, the kind of tractor you'd look at if you were cropping 500 acres. 50 years ago my uncle farmed 100 acres and a Super A was his only source of power. I have a neighbor up the road, just finished restoring a Farmall 300 his dad bought new in 55 to crop 500 acres along with a MH 22.



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Red Greenhorn

07-25-2007 17:37:37




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-25-2007 17:08:03  
My original inquiry centers around the issue I raised concerning the model information stamped on the serial plate. The issue of fuel usage on a diesel versus gas machine I am well versed in via my reading of 856 specific posts on this forum dating back to 2001.

Having said that, I'm still in the dark about this serial plate conundrum.



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Weldon K

07-25-2007 19:52:10




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Red Greenhorn, 07-25-2007 17:37:37  
Learned a new word tonight- conundrum . Now, regarding your conundrum, it set me to wondering about my tractors. I walked down to the sheds and looked at my serial number plates. Found this: 1969 F756D CU ( CU for Custom model )
1969 F856D CU ( also a Custom model )
1970 F1456 ( no D )
One would assume that a gasoline engine tractor would have F856G and a propane burner would be F856LP. Perhaps IH quit putting gasoline and LP engines in 856's after a certain date and after that, no longer labeled the serial plate with a letter for the installed engine's fuel type.

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Hugh MacKay

07-26-2007 02:27:50




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Weldon K, 07-25-2007 19:52:10  
Weldon: I think you are on the right track on the thinking of being available as diesel only. I have a 1968 buyers guide and in 1968 1256 was diesel only. 856 and 756 were offered as diesel, gas or LP. Gas and LP engines were being dropped from large tractors very quickly in the late 60s. Could be the 856 was diesel only by 69.

I know by the time 66 series came along in 72, only the 766 and 666 were being offered as gas. Bear in mind my buyers guides are Canadian. IH printed different guides for US and Canada and indeed offered different options in the two countries.

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Red Greenhorn

07-25-2007 21:41:21




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Weldon K, 07-25-2007 19:52:10  
Weldon: Your walk to the shed can best be described as doing true "legwork" in seeking an answer for me. Thanks much. Now, you've raised an intriguing issue in itself. See the post above by K.B.-826 in which he talks about the format of the plate being changed. Given that the 856 I'm looking at is a '69 diesel but lacks the "D" on the tag, and given that your two '69's are both diesels with the "D" on the plate, one can assume with good certainty that the plate format change occurred after your two machines were manufactured, but before "my" machine was.

So, the plate data format change occurred some time mid year of the '69 model run. A trivial fact in the bigger scheme of things, but one that nonetheless is interesting from the standpoint of change in the history of the manufacturer. Someone, somewhere, owns a '69 IH/Farmall that was the first to wear the new format plate. Again, trivial, but somewhat interesting to ponder where that machine ended up and what duties it performed.

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Hugh MacKay

07-25-2007 18:18:38




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Red Greenhorn, 07-25-2007 17:37:37  
Red: I'll pass on that one, been 17 years since I looked at an 06, 56, 66 or 86 serial plate.



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GordoSD

07-25-2007 15:21:41




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Red Greenhorn, 07-25-2007 14:13:37  
I don't know the answer to your question. But I do know this I own a 966 (diesel). Have had it for 5 years. I rebuilt the alternator, and replaced a shift knob and seat back. That's all I've done to it other than PM. Pulling a 16 foot disc, planting with a JD7000 or loader work it uses about 2.2 gals per hour. Seller should give you a one day 'drive and test/return option'. CHeck it out.
Gordo

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the tractor vet

07-25-2007 15:10:01




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 Re: 856 guzzler or sipper? in reply to Red Greenhorn, 07-25-2007 14:13:37  
If ya work it it is going to use fuel at the rate of 4-7 gallon and hour for heavie work . Ya want something that does not use much fuel then look at a David Brown or other across the pond tractor.



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