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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Bob M, I need your help

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Paul Shuler

07-21-2007 15:28:42




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Bob, I hooked up my lights and they work. When I turn them on the amp gauge deflects to the -. Now for some reason the tractor will not turn over. I can't even pull start it. I put all new wires in to the lights and from the fuse to the light tab on the reg. The dimmer wire was dust so I just removed it.There was a large wire going from the neg side of the ampmeter to the fuse. I didnt see it in your diagrams so I removed it and it wont turn over. So I relaced it and still wont turn over. As you can see in the photos it has a key as a kill switch. I charged the batt to full just a few nights ago and it is now dead as a hammer. Dont know if these photos will help you or not. What in the world have I done. It started and ran great till I started trying to fix the charging problems.
Paul

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Hugh MacKay

07-22-2007 05:11:53




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Paul Shuler, 07-21-2007 15:28:42  
Paul: On your H problem, you did say it has mag ign, right or wrong? I must admit I shy away from mag problems, having had nothing to do with them since 1955. However if it is mag ign you must have two problems, as tow starting a mag ign tractor would have nothing to do with starter, battery, generator, etc. What I do know about mags, they can be tempermental.

Aside from the mag situation, I've had much the same starting problem 3 times in the past 50 years and all with distributor ign. I've had 3 Ampmeters fail and each time the tractor stopped dead in it's tracks. No starter or no fire. The first one was Farmall 300 when it was less than two years old, stopped in the middle of the field baling hay. My 130 did the same about 10 years ago, stopped going down rows cultivating. The 140 I have had the electrical destroyed when I bought it. We did get it running with a series of jump wires, but I had to replace the ampmeter before it would start and run on it's own. I don't remember checking the lights on 300 or 130, however on my 140 the lights did work.

Just something to think about.

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El Toro

07-22-2007 05:25:02




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-22-2007 05:11:53  
Hi Hugh, I thought he had a mag too, but in one of his postings he mentions a Delco vertical distributor. With the battery dead and no output from the generator that's why it wouldn't start when being pulled. Hal



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Hugh MacKay

07-22-2007 08:46:09




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to El Toro, 07-22-2007 05:25:02  
Hal: I can agree with that, however it doesn't take a whole lot of charge to start them.

Just last year, I went to my shop, 130 was stone dead, switch left on. Now, we wont discuss the stupid old guy that left the switch on. I looked at the points, luckily they must have been open, no damage. This was winter with temps just below freezing. I tried cranking and very quickly saw I had no fire, could tell by the feel of the crank. My jump cables were not at home, so what to do. I had two 8' No. 12 wires with aligator clips, I've used in the past for test work. The 140 was close enough I coupled the two batteries +to+ and -to- with the No.12 wires, back to the crank and she fired right up.

I can tell you, when my 130 and 300 ampmeters went, I did believe initially it was a charging problem. No way, both batteries were at full charge.

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Paul Shuler

07-22-2007 22:59:24




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-22-2007 08:46:09  
Thanks for that information Hugh, I didn't even consider a bad ampmeter. I know for sure I had a bad place in the old wiring to the lights. The first time I turned them on this week it showed a slight discharge then suddenly deflected completely off scale to the neg side. I may have toasted something. I have since replaced all that old wire. I had a large bare spot on the wire going through light bar. I'm sure that's why the previous owner had them disconected.
I hope that I get to sample Marges fine cooking someday. My favorite meal is one that I didn't fix.

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georgeky

07-21-2007 20:47:05




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Paul Shuler, 07-21-2007 15:28:42  
Paul, it may not be grounded good. I have had this same trouble several times. Check out that ground cable were it mounts to the tractor.



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Hugh MacKay

07-21-2007 20:15:06




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Paul Shuler, 07-21-2007 15:28:42  
Paul: Bob and Glenda are in Canada for a week starting Fri past. I don't have time to chase him down, although I do know roughly where he is.



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Paul Shuler

07-21-2007 21:16:20




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-21-2007 20:15:06  
Thanks Hugh, I would put it on the trailor and come and find him but I wouldn't want to butt in on a guys vacation.



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Hugh MacKay

07-22-2007 04:35:56




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Paul Shuler, 07-21-2007 21:16:20  
Paul: I doubt that would bother Bob a whole lot. I expect he chose the week to coinside with 2-3 tractor shows in the area. He seemed to be saying in his recent e mail last week, he wouldn't be checking in on us. That may be an asumption on my part, he may well be watching everything we say.

Given Bob's usual summer routine and his frequency of attending shows, he probably took steps to insure he wouldn't suffer withdrawal without YT. My guess is at least one show will find the Melville's in attendance.

Having said all this, and the fact Gary Richmond assured me I was half way to his place on a recent visit to Indiana. There are pit stops for trailers and Hs along the way. If and when you get here, I will help you chase Bob down. Bear in mind he may well be back in Rochester by the time we catch up with him. That said, at least you could say you circum-navigated Lake Erie.

If you do this, bring Jimmy along, he may be a bit sore for long days in transit, heck all the more reason he should be taking a vacation. Let me assure you Bob and I can also cook a steer. Well maybe it would fall in the hands of Marg. and Glenda. I don't know much about Bob's cooking ability, personally I boil water quite well. However, rest assured these ladies have the cooking ability to make a baseball bat gain weight.

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El Toro

07-21-2007 17:30:02




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Paul Shuler, 07-21-2007 15:28:42  
I think you have something that's draining the battery. It could be the regulator. Hal



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Janicholson

07-21-2007 15:51:21




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Paul Shuler, 07-21-2007 15:28:42  
There is nothing that I see that is wrong. When you say turn over, are you saying the starter does not turn, or are you saying it does turn, but will not start?
If no crank, it is not the wiring, The battery is either dead and gone "posts up" (possible) or a connection/wire has corroded or loosened. the heavy wire going to the big starter switch, and the heavy wire going to the starter from that switch, and the ground cable are the only things in that circuit ever.
If it spins, the issue may be the switch in the handy box shown in the pics. If the lead going there gets chafed to ground, it will not start due to a grounded mag.
The Mag is grounded (as you indicate) to kill the engine. Disconnect the wire from the side of the mag and then there should be no reason it would not get fire. Keep us informed, we will respond JimN

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Paul Shuler

07-21-2007 18:55:28




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Janicholson, 07-21-2007 15:51:21  
There is nothing at all when I hit the starter. No grunt no click no nothing. I had my son pull me and I would drop the clutch in 4th and the engine would spin over easy enough but never hit a lick. This tractor has always started very easy with just a tap on the starter. But it has never charged since I owned it. I had the gen. gone through and a new regulator. I never did get it to charge. I did find I had a short in the lights so I unhooked them. Then this week I thought I would get everything working.{HA!] I ran all new wires to the lights and took them apart and cleaned them up real good. They now work well. I put my 6v charger on the batt and it would run for just a few minutes and it would kick off my charger with the battery still in the tractor. Its 6v pos ground with a delco verticle dist. No joke I think I could break an anvil if I tried to improve on it. Thank you so much for all your advice.
Paul

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El Toro

07-22-2007 04:20:27




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Paul Shuler, 07-21-2007 18:55:28  
Since you have a distributor you need battery voltage to the distributor. If the battery is dead and a generator with no output could be the reason it wouldn't start when being pulled. I would recharge the battery and see if battery voltage is present at the starter. Make sure your ground cable is making good contact where its grounded on the tractor. Any paint or rust are good insulators. Hal

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Janicholson

07-21-2007 19:20:40




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Paul Shuler, 07-21-2007 18:55:28  
Because it does nothing, And the starter is not connected to anything but the battery and the big switch, here is the diagnosis procedure:
A cheap volt meter is needed Digital is OK but a meter with a needle is better.
With the tractor in Neutral, and brakes locked, put the meter on volts and set to the next higher volts than the battery. Ground the positive lead and touch the other to the starter terminal at the starter. Push the big button, if there is voltage there, the starter is open. Take a plastic faced mallet, or block of wood and a regular hammer and whack the starter at the end not bolted on. Do not hit to maim, hit to jar it. Then try the Switch again. If nothing, the starter is bad and needs to be rebuilt. Brushes springs, drive, and bushings.
If it turns now it needs the above because the fact that it turns means that the brushes are bad and you just gave them one last attempt at starting.

I there is no volts, the cable or switch is bad, or the ground cable is bad. Test all connections back to the battery for volts Switch on when it is in the circuit. It is that simple.

If it has a mag, do the take the wire off thing and then try it. JimN

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Paul Shuler

07-21-2007 19:36:19




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Janicholson, 07-21-2007 19:20:40  
This may show my ignorance, But shouldn't it pull start even if the starter has gone bad or stuck open.



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teddy52food

07-21-2007 20:46:19




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 Re: Bob M, I need your help in reply to Paul Shuler, 07-21-2007 19:36:19  
If a connection is bad so the starter doesn't work, then you aren't getting any juice to the dist either. If the generator is working, you may get it started if it turns over fast enough to charge.



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