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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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How much power is eaten up thru gears?

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Farmall MD

07-21-2007 09:33:22




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I know each tractor is different. But about how much power is lost thru the trans and diff on an F-12? If it's rated at 10 HP drawbar, what would engine be putting out, 15-20HP? Thanks, Doug




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Farmall MD

07-21-2007 15:34:31




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 Re: How much power is eaten up thru gears? in reply to Farmall MD, 07-21-2007 09:33:22  
Thanks guys, You brought up some good points that I missed. There sure can be alot of power loss to the wheels. Doug N



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Athol Carr

07-21-2007 14:47:19




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 Re: How much power is eaten up thru gears? in reply to Farmall MD, 07-21-2007 09:33:22  
The gears take some power, some old rough figures were 5% per set of gears. The difference between belt power and drawbar horsepower is the number of gear sets (the F-12 belt has one one set of bevel gears) at least four to the back axles. there is also rolling resistance, with steel wheels the ground is permanent deformed by the rigid wheels ( the ground level behind the wheel is lower than that in front, i.e. permanently climbing up-hill) and the lugs have to be driven into the ground and then lifted out again. With Pneumatic tyres the rolling resistance is considerable reduced the re is less ground deformation though there is the energy lost in tyre flexure. The F-12 was rated 14hp on the belt, so probably produced something like 17hp at the flywheel.

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Athol Carr

07-21-2007 14:41:39




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 Re: How much power is eaten up thru gears? in reply to Farmall MD, 07-21-2007 09:33:22  
The gears take some power, some old rough figures were 5% per set of gears. The difference between belt power and drawbar horsepower is the number of gear sets, the F-12 belt has one one set of bevel gears to drive the belt pulley while there at least four to the back axles (bevel input to gear-box, one in the gear-box, one the the differential counter-shaft and one to the back axles. there is also rolling resistance, with steel wheels the ground is permanent deformed by the rigid wheels (the ground level behind the wheel is lower than that in front, i.e. permanently climbing up-hill) and the lugs have to be driven into the ground and then lifted out again. With Pneumatic tyres the rolling resistance is considerable reduced the re is less ground deformation though there is the energy lost in tyre flexure. The F-12 was rated 14hp on the belt, so probably produced something like 17hp at the flywheel.

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little john

07-21-2007 12:09:45




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 Re: How much power is eaten up thru gears? in reply to Farmall MD, 07-21-2007 09:33:22  
the difference between drawbar horsepower and belt horsepower gives an indication. There are some gears providing power to the pully, of course, but the transmission is left out of it.



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Farmall MD

07-21-2007 12:16:45




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 Re: How much power is eaten up thru gears? in reply to little john, 07-21-2007 12:09:45  
Exactly, that's why belt and pto horse are more than drawbar. Power has to go thru less gearing to get to where it needs to be. Doug N



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Farmall MD

07-21-2007 09:57:16




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 Re: How much power is eaten up thru gears? in reply to Farmall MD, 07-21-2007 09:33:22  
Yeah, I did forget to mention it is on steel. Doug N



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Janicholson

07-21-2007 09:50:50




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 Re: How much power is eaten up thru gears? in reply to Farmall MD, 07-21-2007 09:33:22  
Between 10 and 40% can be wasted. The fluid being moved, the efficiency of gears, the lost energy in the tire to ground transfer (as noted below) and the bearing frictional losses all ad up. Manufacturers of automobiles are always (today) searching for better and less "lossey" methods of transmitting power. Hydrostatic transmissions as found in many tractors are a good example of poor transfer. A SMTA with Hytran in the gears would be pretty good. JimN

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Farmall MD

07-21-2007 12:14:06




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 Re: How much power is eaten up thru gears? in reply to Janicholson, 07-21-2007 09:50:50  
Thanks Jim. Basicly what I'm lookin to do is, when I'm finished with redoing the F-12, to be able to pull a 2 bottom plow. It might be pusing it wanting to pull 3. I'm afraid if I go too powerfull, the trans and diff won't hold up. I'm thinkin that a 2-14 or 2-16 is reasonable. Of course 3-12's isn't much more than 2-16's.

It sure would be nice though to show up at my local plow boys with a 3 bottom to get the guys talkin. Doug N

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Bob

07-21-2007 09:43:07




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 Re: How much power is eaten up thru gears? in reply to Farmall MD, 07-21-2007 09:33:22  
For drawbar HP, you have to figure in tire flex (unless it's on steel) and losses to "wheel slip", as well.



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jakee

07-21-2007 12:57:53




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 Re: How much power is eaten up thru gears? in reply to Bob, 07-21-2007 09:43:07  
the SMTA- had a lever on the bottom of the trans case so you could lock out the IPTO if the tractor was used just for drawbar work, so it must make a diffrence for harvester to have done that.



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