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1954 SH ammeter.

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GordoSD

07-17-2007 02:26:11

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Charging problems again on the SH. When not running, switch off, ammeter is zeroed. When I pull the switch out , before starting, the ammeter show +5 amps. After starting, it is again steady zero. Is this correct?

Gordo

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Janicholson

07-17-2007 13:35:42

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to GordoSD, 07-17-2007 02:26:11

Well I have never shied away from messing with my own stuff, and I'm willing to get you into yours! Polishing up the contacts might give it a bit more stability. Use 320 or finer paper, and use some air on them to assure no left over grit JimN

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GordoSD

07-17-2007 06:43:14

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to GordoSD, 07-17-2007 02:26:11

The system is positive ground. New genny rebuild, checked at shop. New 6v voltage regulator. Never opened light /ammeter box. Charged up the battery last night. This am checked the amm, switch off it's zerao. switch on goes to -3 amps. start engine amm goes to +2 amps. Checked battery engine off 6.4 volts. Checked battery engine running same 6.4 volts. This is too weird. No fuse in the cover receptacle, cap missing, but the one wired in is good. I operated the tractor at least 25 hours since last go around on this, without charging the battery, not running any lights. At least 25-30 starts. How long would fully charged battery last without any onboard (generator) charging system at all?

Gordo

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John T

07-17-2007 08:31:24

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to GordoSD, 07-17-2007 06:43:14

This is different info from your first post?? If shes only charging at 2 amps I wouldnt expect all that much of a rise in battery voltage from its normal 6.3 volts sitting. A battery can stay up a long time with no generation going on (depending on light use) unless its started a lot which is the major batetry drain. Usually right after a start up the batery would draw heavy curent, maybe 5 to 20 amps depending on charging system and battery state, and then back off to a few amps depending on VR settings. If its indeed charging, depending on genny and battery, the battery voltage should rise from 6.3 to the 6.5 to 7 volt range. Still if theres not a lot of lights used and shes not started real often, a 2 amp trickle charge might keep the battery up a longgggg gggg period although the rates I mentioned above are more typical of a good battery and generator system.

Tighten the belt and fire her up and dead short ground the gennys Field post (yields MAX charge rate) n see how she charges????? ????? if she charges much better ONLY then, I think the genny is okay but there may be a poor VR ground or a bad connection or wiring from FLD on VR to FLD on Genny. CHECK GENNY AND VR GROUNDS AND CONNECTIONS

This takes you at your word that it has a Voltage Regulator?? If its a cutout relay and light switch controller post back.

John T

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GordoSD

07-17-2007 10:03:35

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to John T, 07-17-2007 08:31:24

OK, tightened the belt one notch. Did the test of a wire from gen field to frame. Ammeter showed 7 amps! Terminal at gen is brand new. Like wise terminal at VR. Only guess is there might be a break in the wire? It's inside the shield so I'll go do a continuity test.Continuity F to F is good. Last readings are 0 amps everything off.-5 amps switch on. -1 amps engine running. No 'surge' amps right after start. Where is that VR ground? It's mounted on rubber pads.But the top mount plate has a wire from it to the VR base, and that mount is clean and tight! Where to go now? What is the 'factory' setting on that new VR? How do I wick it up and check it out? Stay with me guys we're almost there.

Gordo

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Janicholson

07-17-2007 11:57:52

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to GordoSD, 07-17-2007 10:03:35

If it a new (under warrantee) VR, get a new one.
If it is yours, open it and look at the 2 0r 3 relay like coils in there.
one of them will be wrapped with mighty heavy wire, and heavy duty contacts, that is the cutout relay. ignore it.
If there are two other relays, one of those will have a heavy winding and smaller contacts. Ignore it.
The only one left is the voltage relay and it usually has a double set of small contacts. That one is the one to adjust.
one pair of the relay contacts will be held closed when the tractor is off. Usually the upper ones. There is a spring that tensions this set closed (the little flipper controling the contacts will be away from the coil) this spring will need to have just a tiny bit more tension placed on it (screw, or bent tab) this is a very fine adjustment, and is not course at all. Check charging voltage after the tiny adjustment, and redo if not at about 7 volts. JimN

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GordoSD

07-17-2007 13:00:18

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to Janicholson, 07-17-2007 11:57:52

Thanks to the brain trust here, and some deuctive thinking on my part we now have 7-8 amps of charge. I popped the cover off the VR, and located the correct points. I just opened and closed them a couple of times. There was quite of bit of tension on the amp points. I checked them running, and when I opened them the gauge fell off to below zero. Then started the little fella, and thought I saw a little more charge. I ADVANCED the throttle up to about 1700 and the gauge flew over to 7 amps.Question I never asked was 'what rpm do you need for max charge'? I just assumed the system was engineered for lower RPM. So what is the rpm for fully rated output. I know when the shop tested it he had it REALLY humming on that machine. Thanks for all the help

Gordo Now I know why I might have been draining the system. I did a lot of raking in 4th gear at a fairly low rpm.

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sflem849

07-17-2007 20:51:09

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to GordoSD, 07-17-2007 13:00:18

So if I am understanding this properly the generator wasnt getting excited?

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John T

07-17-2007 10:20:43

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to GordoSD, 07-17-2007 10:03:35

Somewhere???? the VR's metallic case has to be grounded like to the generators body (or else the tractor) cuz it provides the field current return current path. Id also use a jumper wire etc to insure the genny itslef has a good ground to the tractors frame as paint or rust can cause a resistive connection. I dont get into VR adjustments over the net, it involves fairly close air gap and spring tension settings and I have NO specs or data here. Maybe Jim or Bob can help with that?? Only thing I try is to non abrasivley clean/buff/polish the VR relay points in case they have oil or oxide or residue hanging on. NOTE a well charged good battery isnt supposed to keep drawing high charging current, maybe a VR relay point cleaning and a lil burn in "washing" of the VR may get her to working????? ???

Other minor cheap n easy things (besides grounds n connections) to check are the brush hold down spring assemblies arent stuck or corroded (clean n lube n exercise them free) or the brushes arent worn down short or the commutator isnt all oiled or blackened over (clean it up shiny)

Let us all know

John T

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Janicholson

07-17-2007 08:19:43

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to GordoSD, 07-17-2007 06:43:14

I agree with Nat.
use a jumper from the F (small) terminal of the gen and bring the wire up to the operating platform. With it running (and charging 2 amps) touch the wire to a bare spot of grounded metal. This will full field the generator causing it to put out max charge rate. It is the same as would be happening in the VR, this is not dangerous.
The amp gauge should show 12 to 15 amps charge.
This indicates that the VR is not adjusted correctly, or poorly grounded to the tractor (Regulator frame to tractor) If it does not produce a larger charge rate, check the belt tension, and fan belt tension. The gen should put out near 7 to 7.1 volts into a fully charged battery. If the battery is not topped up, do that befor testing. JimN

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Nat 2

07-17-2007 06:52:04

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to GordoSD, 07-17-2007 06:43:14

If you're seeing +2, then the generator is charging, just not very well. That would explain why it took so long for it to be a problem again.

Don't trust the ammeter if it's old. Get a new one; you can get a whole set of gauges from Harbor Freight for $10 on sale that'll work for testing. They're the exact same gauges internally as the $50 ones from AutoZone.

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GordoSD

07-17-2007 09:01:33

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to Nat 2, 07-17-2007 06:52:04

Nat, If it's just charging at 5 amps, why don't I see a voltage increase at the battery terminals when it's running? How much increase should I expect at a 5 amp charge? Or would I see any with a fresh fuuly charged battery? Does the V/R allow more than 6.4 volts?

Gordo

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John T

07-17-2007 06:11:22

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to GordoSD, 07-17-2007 02:26:11

Gordo, Perhaps someone made a polarity reversal (Pos to Neg ground) and didnt swap ammeter leads PLUS the genny wasnt correctly re polarized AFTER the reversal and you harmed the Voltage Regulator. You might try to swap ammeter leads,,,,, ,,,,Polarize the Genny,,,,, ,,see what happens. If still no charge post back and I will copy n paste my Troubleshooting Procedure for Non Charging or Bob M has a similar Flow Chart.

John T

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CNKS

07-17-2007 05:20:27

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Re: 1954 SH ammeter. in reply to GordoSD, 07-17-2007 02:26:11

It is not charging, and the leads on the ammeter are reversed -- or at least that will cause your symptoms. SH was orginally (+) ground. If it is now negative, that will reverse the ammeter also.

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