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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........

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Dan(Mass)

07-16-2007 16:22:31




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Thanks to all that gave there input on my earlier post "Super C won’t start”. Well it's still not running. I purchased this Super C with a nice bucket loader from a guy who said he owned it for 8 years and only put about 10 hours on it, used while building his new house. Supposedly it ran well when he parked two years ago and decided to sell it since he no longer had any use for it. Here is my dilemma now. We went through all of the timing stuff everything is where it needs to be to run. It seems now after trying to get this running for the past 3 weeks in my spare time, that the engine doesn't seem to turn fast enough to fire. Infact I think it's gotten harder to turn. If I turn the flywheel by hand with a screwdriver it turns fairly easy until I get to one of the strokes and then it turns hard enough where the starter can't turn it. I can kind of bounce it by hitting the switch a number of times. But this just over heats the starter. During my troubleshooting I found I had some valves stuck and since have freed them. I'm going to drop the pan tomorrow, and basically looking for some advice from my new friends on this forum. I'm not sure if there is a ring sticking or a bad bearing? Or hopefully some thing simple that was caused from lack of use. Any trouble shooting advice will be appreciated!
By the way there is no grinding or crunching when I turn the engine over. There was a bit of squeaking on occasion, kind of sounded like an old shopping cart at the grocery store, but not as bad. ;o)

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va. transplant

07-21-2007 20:30:51




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-16-2007 16:22:31  
Could it possibly be a relief valve in the hydraulics causing the problem?



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Janicholson

07-17-2007 21:42:25




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-16-2007 16:22:31  
Dan, Here is a new and possibly exciting Idea! It could be that the reason it cranks hard on one cyl is because only that cyl is getting compression. The valves on the others may be open from junk under them. Remove the valve cover, and check the clearance. they should be at about .015 to .020 if they are way loose from that, they are held open from sticking, or junk. Put oil in the cylinders, (if you like the looks of the bottom end, put the pan back on, and oil in the pan. Pull the tracrtor with the ign off and the plugs out to get junk out. Then test the compression. If it has never shown oil pressure, I would prime the system with a squirt oil can and a rubber hose stuck into the oil pressure fitting in the block before pulling it, to be sure of lube. Pull in 3rd gear, and only 1/2 the speed normal in that gear. JimN Good luck

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Hoss in Maine

07-17-2007 16:13:11




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-16-2007 16:22:31  
Dan,Ive done a lot of engines and to me it sounds like youve got a bearing gone piggyback. What do you other guys think? later Hoss



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Dan(Mass)

07-17-2007 16:51:06




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Hoss in Maine, 07-17-2007 16:13:11  
I'm stumped... I pulled the pan today and everything looks real good. The piston cylinders look like new the crank looks good.(I would think if there was a bad bearing something would be very obvious) There were some black fragments in the pan that I'm not sure what they are from they crumbled if you pinched them together. I think it was some carbon? Someone suggested the timing gear may of broke. I can't see it looking up through the pan. I may need to bring it to the experts. bummer :(

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georgeky

07-16-2007 19:54:16




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-16-2007 16:22:31  
Dan this is only my opinion. I suspect something was wrong with that tractor, that being the reason it was parked for a couple years. I have heard that it ran good 6 years ago when we parked it story from old friends. I think you should remove the loader right off, and tear your engine down and go through it. A complete engine kit can be had for about 400 or less. You already said your valves were stuck and if it is making noise turning over by hand it isn't good. This way you will have everything in shape and will be good for 20 years or more. You can check the clutch,PP and ring gear while it is down. You will know what you have then and won't have to worry with it for many a year. I bought a 1953 Super C running it did burn a little oil and smoke some so I went through it right away. I paid 800 bucks for it and cultivators. Overhauled the engine, had the head milled and valves reground and or replaced. Put in new clutch,PP and throwout bearing, re wired it with new lights, put on new brakes,seat and spring,front tires, new paint and decals. It looked good as new and nearly was. I had a grand tota;l of 1660 dollars in it. That was in 1997 and the old gal hasn't been down one day since. I put 3 to 400 hours on it every year. It still starts on the first turn and doesn't use a drop of oil. This is just what I would do if it where mine.

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Bob Kerr

07-16-2007 19:30:56




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-16-2007 16:22:31  
Just for giggles, try recleaning all of the new cable connections, unless they were bright and shiny there might have been just enough corrosion from sitting on the shelf to make that happen. My H would roll slow like that and it had fairly new cables and looked good and clean until I unbolted the one that got hot. Cleaned it and no more problem. Before It wouldn't hardly roll over on a compression stroke. it looked clean as a 2-3 year old penny, but wouldn't flow the 6V.

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ScottyHOMEy

07-16-2007 19:54:59




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Bob Kerr, 07-16-2007 19:30:56  
Good thought, too, Bob.

The ground cable on the Super C is just about an inch-and-a-half long between the terminals.. Until just recently, I'd been able to get mine off and on and still have a connection, but it had been goobered up in the past and was touch-and-go. It started out as a 3/8" fine thread for the ground bolt. When I started having charging and starting problems, I drilled it out with a "W" bit and made a 7/16" fine out of it.

The bend in that short distance was so tight that the tension on the short piece of cable had the connection on the battery end on tenterhooks, so I piled the solder to it, and what I've got now is essentially a ground ROD with a battery clamp on one end and a copper eye on the other. But it fixed the ground issue, and the charging and starting problems.

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ScottyHOMEy

07-16-2007 19:08:06




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-16-2007 16:22:31  
Dan, is that squeak when you're turning it by hand/screwdiver or on the starter?

If it's turning easy with the plugs out, it's moe like a valve stuck shut than one stuck open.

When I "saved" by BN, ithad a can over the pipe on the manifold. The head was full of water (which might not be a bad thing, except it wasn't in the water jacket!) as were #1 and #3. #2 and #4 were full, too, except they were so near top thst it wouldn't be fair to call them full, but it gives you an idea how far down the other two were. Rings on them were siezed right to the sleeve. But, like your engine, the bottom end was dry --no water, only some nasty oil. You're better off than than I was, but I'll give you dollars to donuts your problem is gonna be the same as mine only you got to yours earlier than I did mine. I'm suspecting valves stuck shut (either on the seats or in the guides) in the head, and mebbe (I'm still thinkin' about that squeak) that you've got a busted ring or two.

Probably more than you bought in for, but not at all unsalvageable for not unreasonable expense, and it can make for a good project. And you'll have a real handy tractor when you're done.

I hope you stick with it.

Keep us posted.

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Arlo

07-16-2007 17:52:07




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-16-2007 16:22:31  
wondering if rain/snow got into the exhaust system thru the exhaust pipe. Migh try removing the plugs- squirt oil into the plug holes and leave sit for a few hours. then with plugs out turn it over. How dose the oil look on the dip stick. any water or rust there. even a good starter would have a hard time turning a seized motor. Hope you haven't bent a valve.



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Dan(Mass)

07-16-2007 18:17:58




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Arlo, 07-16-2007 17:52:07  
Thanks for your reply. There was no water in the oil. The oil was pretty bad looking when I drained it. The tractor was left outside not covered. The muffler was rotted off but a can placed over the manifold. The motor was turning over quite good before I realized I had three valves stuck open. I put some oil in the cylinders today hoping it will help. I'll be pulling the pan down tomorrow hopefully I'll find no problems. If no problem on the crank I'll pull the head. Thanks again.

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J Fred

07-16-2007 17:16:01




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-16-2007 16:22:31  
perhaps burnt intake valves?
oh, the possibilities are endless.
have fun. and dont give up.
i never let an engine beat me yet. BTW.... does anyone still use a vaccum gauge?
J Fred



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Paul Shuler

07-16-2007 16:30:32




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-16-2007 16:22:31  
If you have the hand crank you might try turning it over by hand with the plugs out and it should spin over pretty easy with no binding. Could be a starter problem or to small or bad battery cables. Are you sure it is timed correctly?



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Dan(Mass)

07-16-2007 16:40:02




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Paul Shuler, 07-16-2007 16:30:32  
Thanks for your reply. I have the same symptom with the plugs out. I can't get a hand crank in there because I have a loader attachment on it. I have a new battery and new cables, clean ground and replaced the wire from the ignition to the coil. It has a new ignition switch and coil,points etc. Newly rebuilt starter. I basically replaced everything associated to the ignition.



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GordoSD

07-17-2007 02:04:14




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-16-2007 16:40:02  
You say you put new cables on it. Where did you get those cables? Measure their diameter and tell us how big they are. If you bought them at an auto discout store you are in trouble.

Gordo



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curt in minnesota

07-16-2007 17:18:20




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 Re: Super C problems This isn't fun anymore........ in reply to Dan(Mass), 07-16-2007 16:40:02  
Have you tried to pull it? When you start it with the starter, do you have the clutch in? I am not sure that pulling it is a good idea if you are thinking there is problems with the engine, however you could block up one wheel with the ignition off, and put it in 4 and see how easy it turns and listen for noises.



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