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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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metric bearings?

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Chris Heinzle

07-15-2007 11:06:49




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I just cracked my M open to work on its innards, and discovered to my horror that many (all?) of the bearings inside it are metric. Whats up with that???

Im curious if anyone knows any history behind its design, and why metric bearings were used on a machine built long before America was 'invaded' by the metric system.

While Im on the subject of bearings, does anyone know a good online bearing store for non-chinese made bearings?

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Pappy

07-19-2007 00:04:18




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Chris Heinzle, 07-15-2007 11:06:49  
I believe it was at a Motion Industries Store where the salesman told me that all ball bearings are metric. I was trying to measure transmission bearings and could not come up with an exact size. He was selling Fafnir bearings and even showed me how to tell the size of the bearing (three dimensions) by the part number. Good Salesman.



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bruce omn

07-17-2007 06:04:28




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Chris Heinzle, 07-15-2007 11:06:49  
According to the Swedes, they developed the ball bearing in the mid to late 1800s. SKF is Swedish. Since Europe had the metric system and saw industrialization before N. America, the bearings were developed in metric.

I learned the hard way to think metric when measuring bearings.... And to learn from the bearing people...



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richardinnz

07-17-2007 02:24:35




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Chris Heinzle, 07-15-2007 11:06:49  
Yep, could not beleve it myself when I did my '44 H tranny. America, 1944, Metric? nah, can't be-- but it was! Funny how all the seals are imperial though.



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Bob Kerr

07-15-2007 20:13:46




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Chris Heinzle, 07-15-2007 11:06:49  
I recenly spent a bunch of time at the local bearing house and the guy there told me the top of the line bearings are made by NTN in Japan, maybe he just said that because they carry NTN, But I did get NTN bearing in a federal mogul box! If I remember right, Dad told me that Model A Fords used metric bolts.



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John-Paul T

07-16-2007 12:38:48




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Bob Kerr, 07-15-2007 20:13:46  
Well in his opinion they are best, I never cared for jap bearings (at all). Only 2 places Ill buy bearings from in order of prefrence, Germany, Sweden, USA. (heh).

Today in bulk sales Sweden is top dog, over 3x the sales of NTN (japan).
Link

Look into FAG or INA both german made bearings. Far better steel (alloy) in those bearings IMO.

Link

"In 1883, 34-year old Friedrich Fischer made a technological breakthrough. Fueled by a fascination with technology, he developed the first ball grinding machine in Schweinfurt, Germany. Fischer’s invention enabled the absolutely precise spherical grinding of large numbers of hardened steel balls, a product that would take the industrial world by storm.

The bearing has not changed much since Fischer’s time, but F.A.G. Bearings continues to develop innovations to improve the way it’s made. Since 1970, F.A.G.’s Industrial Bearings division in Joplin, MO, has found new ways to enhance Fischer’s original idea.

Chris Rueckerl, plant manager for the industrial bearings business unit, said the decision to locate in Joplin was made in 1967. “Joplin was selected from 90 US cities,” he noted. Three years later, it opened with 40 employees as the second F.A.G. plant outside Germany and the second sited in North America."

Why its a better bearing (besides the steel alloy its made of)

"Two examples of this optimization are the two specialty products offered by the industrial bearings business unit. F.A.G. engineered a split bearing that allows the bearing to be disassembled and reassembled in difficult and hard to reach places. Customers can replace the split bearing faster, without the need to disassemble the entire machine and go off line. Rueckerl said, “It can save the user considerable time and money.” While its other product lines are distributed primarily to the North American market, F.A.G.’s industrial bearings division is a global supplier for split bearings.

F.A.G.’s newest industrial bearings product will make an impact in its spherical bearings line. Its E-1 spherical bearing boasts a longer life-time expectancy than standard products. Spherical bearings are used in a wide range of applications and industries, including both paper and aggregate industries, and it should make a significant impact across the board. “When tested against the standard spherical bearing, the new E-1 always performs better,” Rueckerl said. Production of the E-1 will begin within the next six months.

In addition to superior products, F.A.G. also offers customers a comprehensive service program with technical advice, maintenance, and assembly support. “It comes down to customer focus,” Gray said. “There is a high level of engineering expertise available here, and we make that available to our customers. We provide application engineering; we set ourselves apart from the rest of the industry in different ways.”

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Janicholson

07-15-2007 19:08:51




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Chris Heinzle, 07-15-2007 11:06:49  
Of all bearings made, 99% have metric balls, rollers, and inner contact surfaces. Most are metric on the outside, OD-ID and thickness. THe non metric surfaces are ground to spec for (usually) agricultural apps. Manufacturers do not do that any more they are all metric. And a good thing as well because it makes things much easier to find. JimN



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CNKS

07-15-2007 17:21:30




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Chris Heinzle, 07-15-2007 11:06:49  
Metric has been around forever. For example the threads on your spark plugs are 18 mm. How bearings are sized, metric or SAE, is not important. Any bearing place can cross an IH number to another manufacturer, you do not need to know the size. As mentioned below, the bearings are made to fit the shaft, or what ever they fit into.



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FLOPGUNS

07-15-2007 16:38:12




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Chris Heinzle, 07-15-2007 11:06:49  
HELLO JUST WANTED TO ADD MY TWO CENTS. ARE OTHER OLD TRACTORS METRIC TO? OR DID THEY JUST WANT TO HAVE SOMETING DIFFERENT SO THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE DEALER TO GET PARTS



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Nebraska Cowman

07-15-2007 13:52:20




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Harold H, 07-15-2007 11:06:49  
Very interesting. Yes, I have an IH bearing Catalog for 1932 and sizes are listed in mm and inches. The metric will be in even numbers and the inches an odd decimal carried out 3 or 4 places.

And I get out my metric wrenches when I work on magnetos.



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John-Paul T

07-15-2007 13:41:04




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Chris Heinzle, 07-15-2007 11:06:49  
When it comes to steel ball bearings Im not surprised at all! We were trading both parts and assembly work back in the 20's. But they may be the very very good german made ball bearings NOT the china crap steel ones. Huge diff in those two! In fact Id take the german ones over ours even today and that says ALOT.

The bolts in metric didnt appear commen till later reason is most didnt have the tools needed to work on them in US. In fact most #1 grumble back in the 70's with foreign cars WAS the metric tools (just they didnt have them).

So when it came to machining, bearings and similar YES, metric was here back then. Infact most machining is metric as its far far more accurate. When I had machine shop I rarely ever saw inches scale (ya even thousandths). Metric is easier to read and remember at the tiny tiny sizes.

Just so you dont think Im lowing smoke out my....(hehe)

Link
"Because the best ball bearings in the early 20th century were made by German manufacturers, ball bearings have usually been sized in millimeters, even those made in the United States–but the balls themselves were frequently sized in inches."


http://www.answers.com/topic/ball-bearing?cat=technology

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Farmall MD

07-15-2007 13:46:17




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to John-Paul T, 07-15-2007 13:41:04  
Thanks for that input, I figured since the bolts didn't appear till the 70's-80's neither did bearings. Ya learn something every day. I tried to look for my bearings a little bit ago and couldn't find any in inch standard. Chris was right from the start. Thanks, Doug



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Farmall MD

07-15-2007 11:18:41




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Chris Heinzle, 07-15-2007 11:06:49  
Chris, I don't think they're metric. Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but bearings are made to fit shaft, not shaft to fit bearing.

If you have a 1.125(1 1/8") shaft, bearing will not be 1.125. Physics will not allow to fit. Depending on type of fit, bearing could be .002 to .020 bigger than shaft, giving you a goofy number. Doug N



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Chris Heinzle

07-15-2007 11:26:47




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Farmall MD, 07-15-2007 11:18:41  
Doug, Two of the 4 bearings that I have out so far I measured with a digital caliper. The input shaft pilot bearing (BOWER MU5205) measures 2.045 OD and .982 ID. In metric that is almost exactly 52mm and 25mm. The part number actually crossed to a metric bearing from an online bearing retailer. The other one is an IH ST221, 2.165 (55mm) ID, and 4.723 (120mm) OD. Also have ST239 and ST203 out so far. Does that sound right?

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Farmall MD

07-15-2007 12:23:27




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Chris Heinzle, 07-15-2007 11:26:47  
I'm not sure. I didn't think metric would be the choice for these machines. But talk about coincidence, I have a bearing out of my '37 F-12 for the main governor shaft that measures the same dimensions as your input shaft. I got .246 od and .982 ID. Mine is .588 deep, whats yours? The other one I need is 1.259 OD x .471 ID x .393 deep. Since I don't have any metric conversion chart handy, what's that in metric?

Haven't really paid any attention to the dimensions till now, but yeah that does sound like odd measurements. Your M having odd bearings is strange enough, let alone a 1937 F-12. I agree, what's the deal? I haven't gone anywhere to get any bearings yet, so I don't know what they would be yet, haven't had time yet. Please let me know where you find them. I'm not ready for them yet, so like I said I haven't looked yet. Doug N

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Chris Heinzle

07-15-2007 15:49:40




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 Re: metric bearings? in reply to Farmall MD, 07-15-2007 12:23:27  
for all your conversion needs, see Link



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