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OT 3.1 L GM engine

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teddy52food

02-18-2007 08:19:18

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I have a 99 Buick engine apart. It has almost 200,000 miles but was serviced well. It had a head gasket leaking to the outside, none in the engine. The engine was noisy so rather than just changing gasket, we pulled it to check it out. All bearings look good ,wrist pins ok only about .002 cly wear. Pistons without rings will slide freely with a .003 feeler gauge and are almost tight with a .005 gauge. It used no oil. I checked one main bearing that showed a little grooving, with plastigage .002 . The crank is at the macnine shop to be polished. He said it would take std bearings. I am at a loss to find the noise before I put it all back together. It is not noisy cold but gets worse when hot. STP did not help. The lifters all bleed down normally. It didn't sound like a lifter noise. I sounded like the pistons in the ac compresser were loose, but we took off the belt & it didn't change. Is there anyone at GM that I could call?

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Ed Topel

02-18-2007 12:35:38

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to teddy52food, 02-18-2007 08:19:18

Check the cam lobes for wear. My 89 2.8 ate an exhaust lobe last year. At first sounded like a knock, then it got worse backfireing into the intake manifold. Thought I had a ignition problem at first it drove me nuts for a while. Good luck, Ed

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teddy52food

02-18-2007 12:41:42

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to Ed Topel, 02-18-2007 12:35:38

Camshaft looks like a new one. It has roller lifters. All show the same pattern with no wear. Cam bearings are hard to check' but look good too.

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teddy52food

02-18-2007 11:29:51

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to teddy52food, 02-18-2007 08:19:18

Son in law said it changed by pulling # 5 wire. But # 5 has same clearance as the rest.

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Bob

02-18-2007 11:41:35

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to teddy52food, 02-18-2007 11:29:51

So.... does your #5 piston have the plastic coating in the skirt?

Also, have the connecting rod checked for straightness.

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rick in sc

02-18-2007 09:43:00

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to teddy52food, 02-18-2007 08:19:18

Bob is right, very little piston skirt length, done to reduce internal friction and thereby increase fuel economy. There was a new polymer coated piston developed for those engines to allow a tighter skirt-to- wall clearance and reduce the noise. The noise doesn't hurt anything just terribly irritating

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Allan In NE

02-18-2007 09:41:45

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to teddy52food, 02-18-2007 08:19:18

How's about your torque converter and chain? Could you make the noise change by dropping it in gear/neutral, etc?

Your symptoms are backwards for a piston slap issue.

Allan

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teddy52food

02-18-2007 11:12:17

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to Allan In NE, 02-18-2007 09:41:45

It slows down as the engine does. The flex plate(flywheel) checks out ok. The man at the transmission shop said if the converter starts talking, you start walking.

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El Toro

02-18-2007 09:25:51

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to teddy52food, 02-18-2007 08:19:18

Are you sure the wrist pins are within specs? Examine those pistons in that wrist pin area for a cracked piston. Hal

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teddy52food

02-18-2007 11:16:52

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to El Toro, 02-18-2007 09:25:51

I put each rod in the vise & tryed to rock them but didn't seem to be any play there either.

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no mind

02-18-2007 09:16:44

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to teddy52food, 02-18-2007 08:19:18

what does this subject have to do with a farmall discussion board?? keep this wonderful site for tractors and take you junk elsewhere!!!

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GordoSD

02-18-2007 10:25:28

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to no mind, 02-18-2007 09:16:44

No mind. You sure got the right Login name. See that OT in the subject. That means off topic. The it's followed by the GM engine. Pretty well spells out what the thread is. If you weren't interested in reading it, why did you open it? And why take the time to reply? The good members on this board gave him some real good info. Suggest you consider the same. We have a moderator for this board (KIM). We don't need two!

Gordo

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teddy52food

02-18-2007 11:19:39

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to GordoSD, 02-18-2007 10:25:28

Thank you Gordo. It's problems like this that everyone can learn by.

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Bob

02-18-2007 09:10:38

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to teddy52food, 02-18-2007 08:19:18

The 3.1 was one of GM's "slappers". They eventually went to polymer coated piston skirts to deaden the noise. I'm REAL surprised your machinest wasn't aware of any of this!

Take a look at these links, or GOOGLE "3.1 piston slap".

Link

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teddy52food

02-18-2007 12:51:08

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to Bob, 02-18-2007 09:10:38

Thanks for the website. Very interesting! Looks like they used 2 different pistons in production with the coated ones on 5 & 6. Service pistons are all coated.

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teddy52food

02-18-2007 11:40:58

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to Bob, 02-18-2007 09:10:38

It has 2 pistons with the coating & 4 without. It looks like the coating is wore off but they mike out the same size as the rest. I had the machinist double check me as my shop was not too warm (50) when I was measuring. He let the block & pistons warm up overnight before checking. He knew about the coating. I am almost sure it came this way. It was a 1 owner car before me & he had all records of the history. The only thing done to it was the intake manifold gasket was replaced.

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Bob

02-18-2007 11:49:06

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to teddy52food, 02-18-2007 11:40:58

If the piston skirt coating is worn off, I think you have answered your own question.

A friend has the same engine in a 1998 Buick. His Dad bought it new, and it knocked. The dealer pulled it down, and put in one or more new pistons with the plastic coated skirts.

My friend inherited it, and drove it quite a bit, and the knock has come back.

With the age and value of the car, he isn't going to fix it, just run it 'til it quits.

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JayWalt

02-18-2007 09:35:24

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to Bob, 02-18-2007 09:10:38

this is sure to help gm's reputation. I'm sure those honda folks will run to the nearest gm dealership and buyem up!!
I dont think gm can afford to loose more business because of its shotty policies...

Sound like where I work tho.. What are we gonna do? =\

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Fromjb2

02-18-2007 08:32:27

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to teddy52food, 02-18-2007 08:19:18

Hi, a friend at work has a 3.1V6 with about 150,00 miles on it and it is a bit noisy when it is cold. Makes a clicking sound and when the engine warms up the noise disappears. His mechanic is telling him it is piston slap.

Good luck
JimB

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teddy52food

02-18-2007 10:50:49

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to Fromjb2, 02-18-2007 08:32:27

This is not too bad cold. My son in law drove it to his place (75 miles) & said it sounded like it was about to throw a rod. Anything in the fuel system that could make noise? I have been rebuilding engines all my life & never had one like this before. But I am not up to date on the newer stuff. I have been disabled since 93.

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Nat 2

02-18-2007 08:22:09

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to teddy52food, 02-18-2007 08:19:18

Old and out of warranty. Nobody at GM will talk to you.

Maybe if you know someone who knows someone who works in the service department at the local GM dealership?

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ChadS

02-18-2007 09:43:42

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Re: OT 3.1 L GM engine in reply to Nat 2, 02-18-2007 08:22:09

My 3.1 in my lumina is pretty quiet even cold starts,, so you got something worn, or loose. Could be oil pump gears, or timing chain if equipped. mine is a 91 model,, so might be the same, might not,,, could be in the tranny,,,, gues it depends on what you heard when your engine fires up,,,, ever tried to hunt the location of the sound??? might help in a diagnosis. I have 162K miles on it now,, never been into the heads or short block yet. Chad

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