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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Hydraulic system heater

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Wayne in MN

02-08-2007 11:52:34




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I have an 806 and would like to find a heater for keeping the hydraulic oil warm. The dealer near me says there is nothing. I have a dipstick heater, but I"m looking for something permanent. I"ve wondered if I could install a frost plug type of heater into the filter cover. Any ideas?

TIA
Wayne




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Bob

02-08-2007 21:27:09




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
I'm NOT going to get into the argument about the good or the bad reasons for wanting an oil heater, but if you DO want one, and you have a pipe threaded port, NO problem.

Phillips/Temro "zerostart" makes all sorts of cold weather equipment, tank heaters, block heaters, threaded immersion heaters, etc.. Some are rated for coolant, some for oil, some for both.

There are a couple of other brands, too.

I have their catalog at hand, and there's a whole page of the treaded immersion heaters, listed by size (thread size and length) and wattage.

Any auto parts store or heavy truck place up here in the frozen North will have a catalog, and access to order the heaters.

They have a website. You have to "drill" down through several screens, but, eventually, you can view the "cold weather starting products" catalog on-line, in .pdf format.

Once you get into the catalog, go to "threaded immersion heaters".

(There is a section listing block heaters, by application, for ag and industrial, too.)

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Wayne in MN

02-09-2007 08:44:16




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Bob, 02-08-2007 21:27:09  
Thanks, that's very helpful. I think I'm going to find what I'm looking for.



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matthies

02-08-2007 17:57:27




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
I would check with a CAT dealer and see what they offer. I know some Cummins engines have a 3/4 pipe thread heater for the engine. Maybe measure your drain plug for a place to install one. I had a magnetic one I tried on a farmall H, even over night in the barn didn't help. I hate to mention this but , JD offered one to put in the engine oil pan on 3010-4020's, also 3/4 pipe. chris



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Wayne in MN

02-09-2007 10:43:48




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to matthies, 02-08-2007 17:57:27  
That's a good idea. The Peterbilt guys might have something.



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Hugh MacKay

02-08-2007 17:46:23




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
Wayne: Have you heard the saying, "trying to heat all outdoors" well that is just about what you would be trying to acomplish. I forget the exact transmission-rear end oil capacity of an 806 but expect it's somewhere between 15 and 20 gallons spread out 1/2 the length of the tractor. To try and warm that oil plus the castings in MN this week, you'd have to start a fire under the tractor.

I can tell you what will work, but you can not have an oil or fuel leak, not even a little one. Fill about 3 cast iron fry pans with charcoal, get it glowing, place it under tractor within 6" of castings. Put up plywood wind breaks. It will warm it up, but is it worth it?

Sounds as though you have moisture from condensation in that oil, drain the system, flush the system, then fill with new hytran and install new filter. Further more if you don't work the tractor hard enough to get it warmed up at any given day, you will have the same old problem this time next year.

This is one of the pitfalls of big tractors doing little jobs in cold weather. This is why I always kept a skid steer and a Farmall Super A around even when I owned a 560, 656 1066, etc. If the tractor isn't working hard it's best off parked. This is exactly why you folks rebuild diesel engines at 4,000 hours when they should be lasting 15,000 hours.

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1950mfd

02-08-2007 17:46:03




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
I think that he just wants to warm the oil up faster without running the tractor as long before he uses it. All of our Magnums (7110, 7220, MX230) have a block heater-style heater in them. It sure makes a difference on a cold day.



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MN Scott

02-08-2007 16:30:44




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
The 806 has an open center hydraulic system. That means oil is always circulating and warming itself unlike newer tractors were oil only moves when there's a demand for it. Start your tractor and let it idle fast for a few minutes until the pumps stop humming and your good to go.



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Michael Soldan

02-08-2007 16:20:22




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
I don't want to get into anything here since there are different ideas about the problem. I do know that TSC has magnetic block heaters that would work on a trans casing as well if you want it warmed up.Just stick 'em on and plug 'em in.



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Steven@AZ

02-08-2007 15:17:45




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
My boss's Hydro 86 had some type of plug heater in the bottom of the transmission/rearend case that we plugged in during the winter time if we needed to use it. Sure speeded up the warm up time!

Give Bermuda Ken a call and see if there was anything made for the 806 that would be similar. 1-866-FARMALL



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Janicholson

02-08-2007 14:32:49




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
To use it periodically to rid the good oil of moisture I see no reason it could cause problems, Do it. JimN



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no tools

02-08-2007 14:06:46




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
you don't need a heater the only thing you need to do is drop the oil.Take the cover or three pt top link bracket off above the PTO unit.Flush the sluge out of the bottom of housing.I mean flush!Just went though this on two of our tractors.dirt- cheap oil-moisture-An dirt from plugging in emplments over the years.any where you have sluge you have moisture.the pickup tube will not pick up the sluge.put good oil back and change filter 2-3 times FIXED ours.

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JayWalt

02-08-2007 13:34:28




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
still havent heard the problem which makes one think they need a heater? is this more preventative,or what?



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PORKY B.

02-08-2007 13:34:02




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  

You want to heat the oil up, are you planning on making french fries ? Change the oil and filters in the reservoir, if its got moisture in it.



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sd pete

02-08-2007 13:12:55




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
It will work ok on the 4th of July



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Allan In NE

02-08-2007 13:03:43




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
Doggone it, Wayne.

Take a few minutes, spend the money and change out that filter/oil.

Allan



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26Red

02-08-2007 12:44:02




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
I hear ya on the hydraulic problem. At -20 below it really sucks... I"m getting tired of this below zero weather here in MN. A couple days are okay, but over a week it is not much fun. I have found that magnetic type heaters work okay, but if you could get an "in tank" heater that would be good. I wonder if you could use one of those external tank heaters and plumb it into your hydraulic tank? Maybe our canadian friends can offer some suggestions..

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RustyFarmall

02-08-2007 12:36:24




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
The reservoir for the hydraulic oil in your 806 is the transmission/rear end housing. How many gallons of hy-tran is in there? I think about the only way you are going to warm up that much oil is to either park the tractor in a heated building, or park a torpedo heater underneath the tractor. I suppose you could rig up something with several heat lamps attached to it and place that under the belly, but it would still take a very long time to make much difference.

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JayWalt

02-08-2007 12:48:45




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to RustyFarmall, 02-08-2007 12:36:24  
didnt know it was a whole hydraulic outfit with the tranny being the resevoir. dont those things hold over 10 gallons of oil? even with a 1500 watt immersion heater, you are looking at multile hours to heat it at all. Then consider the tranny case needs to be heated too cause it will absorb alot of the heat. This is nearly impracticle with a standard tye heater. now tap a hole in the case and get a special plug for a 220 5000 watt water heater element might work, but man, its just not worth it or make much sense...

As nat said, fix the problem, not make more for yourself..

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IH2444

02-08-2007 13:13:02




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to JayWalt, 02-08-2007 12:48:45  
My little 2444 holds 15 gal. Lots of oil to heat with all that cast iron case against the cold.



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JayWalt

02-08-2007 13:22:53




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to IH2444, 02-08-2007 13:13:02  
yeah, i figured it was alot. Now dont get me wrong, ideally it would be nice to warm up the oil esecially in a system hydraulic setup which runs the transmission, power steering, remotes, hitch and so on, but the amount of fluid makes it rather imractical. Now a smaller setup like on my 300u which only uses about 3-4gallons (res being 2.5) would be alot more feasible and would actually warm the fluid which reduces wear in those cold environments.

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Nat 2

02-08-2007 12:33:33




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
My question is, why? After a few minutes, an 806's hydraulic system should be good to go even in the coldest temperatures.

If you're thinking that warming the oil is somehow "fixing" a problem you're having... It's only masking it, and it's only a matter of time before the whole thing goes belly-up on you.

There's no specific commercial product designed for the "large frame" IH tractors, or any IH tractor that I'm aware of. Whatever you do is going to be a cob-job.

Putting a heater in the filter cover will only warm the oil in the filter. The best place to warm the oil is in the reservoir, but I am not aware of any preexisting hole in the transmission large enough to install a useful heater.

If you're going to tear the tractor down to have a hole machined for a heater, you may as well just get the hydraulic problem fixed. It'd be cheaper.

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JayWalt

02-08-2007 12:16:31




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 Re: Hydraulic system heater in reply to Wayne in MN, 02-08-2007 11:52:34  
dont know where the resevoir is on your tractor, but u could modify some sort of immersion heater to replace the dipstick. Bad thing is the oil doesnt conduct heat quite like water, so dont go overboard on the power rating per surface area.
For me, it woul be easy, take the distick out, get a ie lug that fits it, drill and ta a hole in it and mount u an immersion heater. Bad thing is its not very long/resevoir is shallow.

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