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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Ring Compressor

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CNKS

02-02-2007 12:45:29




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Putting new sleeves, pistons, rings in my 460/C221. The sleeve has a 1/16" or so angle at the top before going vertical. The oil ring is 3 piece with the corrogated stainless steel band and top and bottom rails. The brand is Federal Mogul/Sealed Power. The two ring compressors I have tried release the bottom rail as I push the piston down, and it expands to the width of the angled area and will not go down into the cylinder without damaging something. An individual rail off the piston fits easily into the cylinder and has the correct gap between the ends. Everything is lubricated -- any suggestions?

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Janicholson

02-03-2007 07:37:04




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
CNKS,
I like ROoers post, Another addition to that is to bell out the chamfer in the sleeve. There is no ring travel there, so no foul. With a lathe, a professional (one size compressor can be hatched by using an old sleeve, cutting it to about 3" including rim, then tapering the top of it at the rim then installing the piston into that compressor with tahe regular compressor. The bottom edge can be ground to fit the chamfer exactly. thus not getting wedged in a gap, and not spiraling in itself. Good luck, JimN

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Roger Mills

02-03-2007 06:27:53




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
CNKS, hope you got 'em in by now but if not-try this; the compressor overlaps and won't go down into the bevel at the top of the sleeve, right? I went to home depot and got sheet metal duct that is not snapped together and then made a compressor that was 1/4" short of overlap by trimming the ends. I used a fine file to get rid of burrs. It is very thin and without the overlap it went far enough into the sleeve that the oil ring edge parts went in OK. I used a cut off piece of a broom handle to keep pressure on the top of the piston and gently tapped with a small hammer.

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williamf

02-03-2007 03:57:47




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
CNKS, I've never done that, and it's been thirty years since I've watched someone do it, so it's not like this is from an expert.
As thin as the material of your compressor is, it still (I would imagine) has a more or less square cut edge. If it had a sharp beveled edge on the bottom maybe it would sit down in the angled top of the sleeve. It's not unimaginable that you could put such an edge on it, if you were willing to risk maybe ruining the device.
Good luck, Wm

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hydro

02-02-2007 21:22:12




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
I've got a feeling this isn't your first rodeo so I'll try not to waste your time. A 1/16 taper at the top of the sleeve seems to be a somewhat radical taper. I can see where this much taper would be a problem for certain styles of compressors. I have three types of ring compressors, my least favorite is the old band,clamp ratchet type. My favorite is a wavy band over center clamp configuration.It seems to work when nothing else does. Resist the temtation to use a bigger hammer,screwdrivers or awls. In 40 years of engine building I've never needed them to install a piston.

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RD/Oh

02-02-2007 17:07:05




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
I have had the same problem. This was my solution and it works great. first make sure the edges of the compresser that lap over are even when tite.( I just use motor oil for lube). put the piston in the hole, make sure the compesser isseated on sleeve,use wood hammer handle and lightly tap compresser,as it may be a little off. Hold compresser down on sleeve, with the wood handle bump the piston down,when the handle hits the piston keep pressure on it don't let it bounce back. good luck let us know the outcome Ron

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El Toro

02-02-2007 14:45:24




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
You need to make sure the ends of that ring expander are butted together after installing the rails. Hal



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CNKS

02-02-2007 18:02:58




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to El Toro, 02-02-2007 14:45:24  
They are -- however it is easy to get one end on top of the other if I'm not careful, which will ruin the sleeve.



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in sticks

02-02-2007 14:24:08




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
maybe you could put your extra hose clamp on the outside and down low on your ring compressor?



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CNKS

02-02-2007 14:29:14




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to in sticks, 02-02-2007 14:24:08  
Possibly, but I think the thing on the underside of the ring is going to bend the metal in the compressor if I get it too tight. But it might allow me to get the compressor in the sleeve as Old mentioned. The compressor is a double thickness where it overlaps, though. Looks like I have several things more to try, after wasting a day.



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riverbend

02-02-2007 14:11:44




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
If you remove the ring compressor, is there enough clearance to tip the piston slightly in the bore ? If so, start on the low side and gradually work the oil ring into the cylinder, compressing it with your fingers, an awl, or a small screw driver.

Let us know what finally works.

Greg



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CNKS

02-02-2007 14:37:04




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to riverbend, 02-02-2007 14:11:44  
That could work, but I am afraid of scratching either the sleeve or the ring. One little nick in the ring means a scratch on the sleeve the length of the stroke. I'm good at forcing things together, but not inside an engine -- but, I may try that, gently. Those rails do not compress easily once they press against the other parts of the oil ring.



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City-Boy McCoy

02-02-2007 14:54:55




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 14:37:04  
CNKS: I have had the same problem with other engines in the past. I finally used two small screwdrivers, one in each hand, and carefully worked the ring as I went around - holding my ground with one screwdriver and making progress with the other. Had to use my chin to push piston as I made progress with the screwdrivers (LOL). It worked, when nothing else did.....! mike



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James Williams

02-02-2007 13:45:42




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
CNKS,Can you squeze the oil ring by hand and than install the piston,then put the compressor around the other rings



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CNKS

02-02-2007 13:54:36




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to James Williams, 02-02-2007 13:45:42  
Not easily, because of the friction caused by having 3 pieces in one slot. Perhaps if I had longer and stronger fingers. I have a 3-4 inch hose clamp that I am sure will compress it as far as it will go, but the clamp has sharp edges where the adjustment is attached and it might gouge the ring.



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James Williams

02-02-2007 13:23:47




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
CNKS,I had the same problem the other day,I noticed the band that tightens the ring compressor is closser to one end which is the bottom of the compressor.I had the compressor upside down and actually it wasnt compressing the rings like I thought even though it was as tight as I could tighten it.The piston would clear one or two rings then hang up



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CNKS

02-02-2007 13:34:20




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to James Williams, 02-02-2007 13:23:47  
Mine is the same way, and I wish the band was closer to the bottom when right side up. But, the rails on the oil ring are about the same width as the angle into the cylinder, thus they clear the compressor before they get past the angle -- I'm doing something wrong, I just don't know what. It almost appears that I need a compressor that fits into the cylinder. Also, I think the type that use external pliers to squeeze the thing together might be better and easier to get lined up. None are available locally.

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RP-40-9n

02-02-2007 13:08:56




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
push the piston up higher in the compressor, at least an inch or two. if you put the bottom ring close to the bottom of the compressor it wont compress it. RP



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CNKS

02-02-2007 13:15:41




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to RP-40-9n, 02-02-2007 13:08:56  
I have done that. The ring is compressed until it clears the compressor. Been messing with it for hours.



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the tractor vet

02-02-2007 13:28:55




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 13:15:41  
ya ain't getting it tight enough , Make sure that your rings are staggered off the wrist pin and on the iol ring you have two retainer rings that hold the expander inplace stagger them off 180 degrees put the piston in the ring compressor and tighten it up then take the handel of the hammer and tap all around the side of the ring compressor and retighten . place it over the hole and with the handel of a 4 # hammer give it one quick rap and she should fly in don't be gental . If this doen not work then you are going to have to get a new ring compressor as yours is streched . Myself i have the one that is a snap on that has the pliers handels and the different size compressors the work like a charm.

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CNKS

02-02-2007 13:48:53




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to the tractor vet, 02-02-2007 13:28:55  
Vet, I have been afraid of getting too rough with it because the piston is aluminum and the I am also afraid I will damage the bottom rail, or the sleeve if it is not ready to go in. I have not tightened it to it's limits because I was afraid I would really have to whack the piston to get it to move -- (I have not had your whacking experience, and do not know the piston's limits before it gets damaged), I will try "light" whacking first.--Another question about staggering the rings. The expander in the oil ring butts together, it doesn't lock. According to the instructions with the sleeve kit, the butted ends are supposed to line up with the piston pin. Do the top and bottom rails go 90 degrees in opposite directions from the piston pin, and do the 2 compression rings then line up on opposite sides of the pin, that is 180 degrees apart or 90 degrees from the oil ring rails?

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T_Bone

02-03-2007 06:19:42




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 13:48:53  
Hi CNKS,

The last AL piston I did I had to crank down on the compressor real tight then I made a wood disc 1/4" smaller than the bore and used the disc to push on the top of the piston. Even with lots of oil, the piston went in tight but sliped right in as soon as the compressor was tight enough.

I read the instructions to mean 180º from the pin.

I too am just a shade tree mechanic so better advice might be well taken.

T_Bone

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GordoSD

02-02-2007 12:53:41




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 12:45:29  
Install from bottom?

Gordo



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CNKS

02-02-2007 13:04:49




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to GordoSD, 02-02-2007 12:53:41  
Crankshaft mounting journals (in block) are in the way, piston will not go in straight.



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old

02-02-2007 13:48:09




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 13:04:49  
One other thing lots of lube so they slip in better



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old

02-02-2007 13:47:16




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 13:04:49  
Every compressor I have used will fit inside the sleeve just a little if not your not getting it tight enough or the rings do not have the right gap so they don't compress enough to get the compressor into the sleeves



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CNKS

02-02-2007 13:58:07




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to old, 02-02-2007 13:47:16  
I have tried that without success, I guess I have to tighten it to the breaking point -- then the piston isn't going to move without a big hammer.



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old

02-02-2007 14:59:12




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to CNKS, 02-02-2007 13:58:07  
One other thing. If they are used pistons you might not have the ring groove clean enough and if thats the case then you will never get them in the sleeves. Should have said that in my first post but I seem to think better after the fact then when I answer the first time



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HaroldIHC

02-02-2007 21:08:43




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 Re: Ring Compressor in reply to old, 02-02-2007 14:59:12  
Make sure the ring grooves are clean, I have used a hose clamp and compressed one or two rings at a time with good success, its worth a try. Harold.



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