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A Electrical Question

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plh_in

01-22-2007 08:43:45




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I have a Farmal Model A that was converted to 12v via the previous owner. I have a 1 yr old battery (cheap one from TSC). My problem is when trying to start, it was barely turning over, so I charged the battery & got the same results. The negative side terminal & ground wire get hot when trying to turn the engine over...

Do I have a junk battery here...? Cables from the battery are fairly new as well as the cable to the starter which BTW also gets hot when trying to start. I'm leaning towards getting a new battery but would like the "experts" thoughts.

Thanks for any input!

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John T

01-22-2007 17:16:13




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 Re: A Electrical Question in reply to plh_in, 01-22-2007 08:43:45  
plh, Im gonna bet on its a starter problem for now at least, cuz if the cables are new that means the connections would have at least had some attention lately and you claim the battery is charged???. Best bet would be have a shop load test the battery to really tell its condition !!! I recommend at least 0 Gauge cables on 12 volt and 00 on 6 volt applications.

To be safe I would still remove, clean n wire brush n reattach each n every battery n starter n ground cable and if the ground is on any thin or rusty sheet metal you might wanna reattach it to a clean solid into frame type bolt.

If after all that she still cranks slow Ima thinkin maybe the starter bushings are badly worn and the armature may be dragging the field poles which heats things up n draws high currents !!!!! !!

Ol John T and all

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JayWalt

01-22-2007 12:05:14




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 Re: A Electrical Question in reply to plh_in, 01-22-2007 08:43:45  
I agree with most everyone else. The battery is the last on the list of possible problems if it is fully charged and the specific gravity is good, but since the cables are warm, the battery obviously has the juice to produce the power to heat the cables.. As everyone has said...

1. Check for proper wire size and make sure the connections are tight and clean as possible and the ground is on a solid piece of framing, or casting. No sheet metal connections for the ground please =)

2. Check the starter, as was stated if the bushing are worn, internal parts, armature and field, can rub each other and cause the starter to dragg something fierce and pull abnormally high current and eventually burn out the starter windings, not a good thing. Bushings can be redily had and replacing them isnt too difficult if you observe how you take the starter apart.

3. Theoreticllay the solenoid contacts could be going bad and basically causing a bad connection. About the only way to tell is to either replace the solenoid with a known good one, or use a GOOD ohmeter and check the contact resistance. If your tractor has the push button switch with the main cable going to that ( I think some did, I dont know much about the letter series), then the switch might be bad. You could use jumper cables to bypass the solenoid/switch.

4. Chances are the battery is ok, but not necessarily. Make sure it is charged good, the specific gravity is good, and the voltage is good (might have a dead cell). Also do a load test on it after it is fully charged.

Hope this help to combine all the other posts for a easier time troubleshooting.

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El Toro

01-22-2007 09:06:21




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 Re: A Electrical Question in reply to plh_in, 01-22-2007 08:43:45  
I would use at least 0 size battery cables. You need to measure the specific gravity in each battery cell to see what the state of charge is.
Readings should be 1.250 or higher and each reading should be close to one another. I only use the batteries from Walmart that has the 3 year free replacement. I even have one on my garden tractor its been on there for 5 years.

Make sure your charging system is working too. With the engine at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle measure the voltage at the battery. Should be around 14 volts. Hal

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gene bender

01-22-2007 09:04:04




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 Re: A Electrical Question in reply to plh_in, 01-22-2007 08:43:45  
The reason they went to 12v probably was because of a bad starter as the cables sound good. I would get the starter checked. The starter on 12v should turn over quick and start the engine fast enough to not overheat the starter. Better get it checked first.



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Bob M

01-22-2007 09:02:23




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 Re: A Electrical Question in reply to plh_in, 01-22-2007 08:43:45  
Any cable that gets hot while cranking is too small and will prevent the starter from developing any power. Replace the cables with heavier ones and your B should crank right up.

I'd recommend at least #0 AWG cables.



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old

01-22-2007 08:57:20




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 Re: A Electrical Question in reply to plh_in, 01-22-2007 08:43:45  
Hot cables means either bad connections and or a starter thats getting weak and pulling to many amps. Remember clean tight and brite on the connections. As far as the starter most auto parts stores will check them to see if thats your problem and the price is right for haveing it checked. Cost most of the time is $0000

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Janicholson

01-22-2007 08:56:21




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 Re: A Electrical Question in reply to plh_in, 01-22-2007 08:43:45  
That heat is the evedence needed to tell the story. The cable may be too small, or corroded at the terminal. Cables on that tractor should be made from thick wire (many get replaced with auto grade cables) the designation is "O" gauge wire Or if it is a bigger tractor than youre #OO gauge is used. The heat should not be there. The battery may be OK, I would not suspect it until you replace the cable and it still has issues. Another way to assist the cable you have as a test, is to use good 4 gauge jumper cables to add conductivity to that heating cable. Just connect to both ends of that cable with one of the jumper leads to increase its conduction. If it does better, it points out the problem is as indicated. If a new cable does not make it start better(but prevents the heating at the wire), the starter motor may be dragging. This is caused by worn bushings in the end frame on one or bothe ends, allowing the armature to physically drag against the field poles. If this is tha case it will still turn slow, and needs to be rebushed and a new set of brushes installed. Good luck, JimN

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plh_in

01-22-2007 09:16:55




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 Re: A Electrical Question in reply to Janicholson, 01-22-2007 08:56:21  
Where is a source to get #0 cables? I know the one's on the tractor now are automotive grade.

Thanks for all the help!



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old

01-22-2007 09:34:17




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 Re: A Electrical Question in reply to plh_in, 01-22-2007 09:16:55  
Most auto parts stores can get them or you can make them your self. I have used welding cables on some of the ones I work one and buy ends that solder or crimp on. Also most auto parts stores will have the stuff so you can make the heavy cables your self from the parts they have



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Janicholson

01-22-2007 09:33:52




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 Re: A Electrical Question in reply to plh_in, 01-22-2007 09:16:55  
NAPA can usually make them up. OTR truck repair business, TSC, Fleet supply, or if you want premium grade, have a welding supply/repair business make them. They are best with soldered on ends (be sure the solder used id resin based, not acid) and fine stranded copper. Use no clamp on terminals. JimN



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