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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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1940 H need the nitty-gritty

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SKK - Big Red F

01-09-2007 17:29:12




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O.K. 1940, first quarter H. I truly believe it was ordered as a single fuel gas setup. Square channel seat is still there in a weird form. McCormic-Deering label is still on the hood. Factory rubber & rims, looks original, never had fluid in them. So what I need to know is:

Shutter control rod mounted where exactly? What was avl as an option vs standard equipment. Intake manifold number? Head casting number? What cast iron pistons would have been put in a "true" gasoline model this early?

Would it have had a mag ignition, or was electric start and lights avl from the start. It has modern replacement lights so I don't really know what was there originally.

Will one of Guy's books give me all of these details? which one or do I need everyone he ever wrote?

Any other specific detail, no matter how minor that you have come across during your adventures.

I need to replace the frame rails. Do these also have casting dates on them?

This one I want to put back together completely as stock if possible; just to say I did it once; & leave grand children something special to remember.

I don't want to raise a rucuss over whether a single gas fuel version was ever released this early, I believe it was and resides in Crete NE now. Guy if you are out there reading this -- uh what do you say?

So can you fellers help me out here. I've worked on more Green iron up to now. Yea, I was younger and more impressionable back when. JD seemed like the whole world and our 4020 is still king of the hill.

Thx SKK

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Paul G. in Mn

01-10-2007 17:18:20




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to SKK - Big Red Fan, 01-09-2007 17:29:12  
I am process of restoreing a very early 39 M and am guessing the early 40 H's had alot of the same differences I have found from later models. I will start at the front and work my way back as to some of the things I have found that set an early model out from the rest. The front boster is different if you look from the front and look right above the wheels it is sooth and doesnt have a cowcatcher looking notch. the grill uses dzues fitting to attaxh to radiator next the frame rails on the early ones had the serial number stamped right below were you add oil. Oil pan has petcocks that look like 1/4 round rod that are bent. Hood has no braces on the inside. The mag has a plunger on it that is acuated via a cable that goes up to the bracket on the light bar next to the crank handle for the shutters. The front gas tank mount is made up of steel peices bent and welded togather and no a cast iron piece like the later ones. Air cleaner mounts different to that bracket. Small gas tank the bottem cover is smooth and no inverted like later ones. Main gas tank the sediment bowl is up close to the front edge instaid of centered. the belt pulley unit the handle to engage faced out tward the carb side of the tractor. the steering post has a different bolt pattern to the platform and is a triangle seel piece and not cast. light bar the dimond shaped piece is smooth and they use a cast piece to keep it square. Lights have square tremanals instaid of round and also the lens are textured to the outside. has the notched platform and also has the gear shift patten stenseled into it. the seat is made of channel iron and uses a singel bolt to mount to the platform. The bracket for the rear light is small h shaped. The Brake drums mounted to a keyed shaft insaid of a splined shaft. The lower shaft in the transmision was differt in the way it drove the PTO and should have the flat pto. The ancor for the draw bar is alot lighter as well as the draw bar being 3/4 thick. wedges for the wheel castings are 2 piece istaind of 1 piece and also the real early ones had 36' rear wheels. I am sure there is more but this is what I have found so far and seem to be finding more all the time. If you need more details on any of this let me know and I'll try explaing more. Paul

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D Slater

01-09-2007 19:45:51




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to SKK - Big Red Fan, 01-09-2007 17:29:12  
Don't think you will ever know for sure, but look at cylinder head and see if date code matches tractor. If so look at # on head, if its 8043 D it may have come gas. If it has 8186 D or 8776 D it came with a starting tank unless head was changed. Early heads used 3/8 inch studs for manifold instead of 7/16 size on later heads. Tractors before serial # 20891 did not use a suffix code. Not positive about this but think only one size grey iron piston was used for all early tractors.Not sure if casting # on block would be 6937 D, DA or DB. If I remember correct they were up to DC sometime in 1941.

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SKK - Big Red Fan

01-09-2007 19:59:46




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to D Slater, 01-09-2007 19:45:51  
Great info. There is no engine to look at. It blew up 10 years ago and was scrapped. So need to replace it with as original of parts as possible.

Thx for the detail. skk



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D Slater

01-09-2007 19:58:53




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to D Slater, 01-09-2007 19:45:51  
Forget what I posted, just dawned on me that you don't have a original engine.



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CNKS

01-09-2007 17:53:33




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to SKK - Big Red Fan, 01-09-2007 17:29:12  
Go to www.caseih.com and look at the diagrams in the parts books, that won't answer all your questions but is a start. If your tractor was a gas only tractor, originally, I doubt if it had shutters, they were an option but were standard only on distillate/keosene models. I think the frame rails are cast not forged, so there won't be any casting numbers. Everything not absolutely necessary for the tractor to run was an option. Lights, starter, battery, hydraulics, light box, etc. It had a magneto as distributers were not yet available. The seat sounds original. The pistons were likely cast iron, available as standard and a couple of high altitute versions, there should be a suffix after the serial if high altitude were installed at the factory, although I am not positive that IH used suffixes that early. Guy Fay's books are all very helpful, but do not go into the type detail you want. Best to get an operators manual, pictures of nearly everything is in it and you need one anyway.

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SKK - Big Red Fan

01-09-2007 18:14:24




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to CNKS, 01-09-2007 17:53:33  
I have a couple of owners manuals, but they also leave a lot out. I have the parts books, but they tend to generalize, cutoff at serial numbers, but again don't truly give you an accurate picture of the first year & a half.

I imagine someone out there has an actual 1939 or 1940 parts book. Maybe they will chip in here.

My experience is that the books don't truly tell you the real situation. My brand spanking new 1974 Chevy pickup came with an electronic HEI ignition according to the shipping order and literature of the day, however, the item was deleted by the factory and a distributor installed instead. Cost me $99 to order the HEI unit, from Chevy, which I then had to put on myself, adding insult to injury.

In my experience, gray hair is the most valuable commodity there is when trying to put something like this all together, and very old pictures.

Or maybe I just like talking to old folks like myself. Most of the youngster's think I am nuts!

:)

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Wardner

01-09-2007 18:11:59




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to CNKS, 01-09-2007 17:53:33  
CNKS

Don't you mean "forged not cast". The part that attaches to bellhousing is welded to heavy, not standard, weight 4" channel and is still manufactured today.

I believe some of the early right hand channels of the '40 H still had the tractor serial stamped in as were all the '39's. It will be found at the front top flange of the channel.

I have a '40 H and memory tells me that the shutter crank mechanism penetrates the rear gas tank mount in a hole punched for that purpose.

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CNKS

01-09-2007 18:46:21




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to Wardner, 01-09-2007 18:11:59  
Wardner -- Yes, that's what I meant -- I read the things 3 or 4 times, then still make mistakes I don't find until too late. I have a 41 H, too new to have the serial on the rails, but it does have the old style engine mounts. I have gray hair, but left the farm in 1960, and what I remember may be incorrect. For example, our H had a kero/distillate carb when new as far as I am concerned. I put gas in it for 10 years so I am absolutely positive it did not have a starting tank or shutters, I don't remember what the manifold looked like -- didn't know there was more than one in when the tractor was purchased. However, my dad, right or wrong, likely wrong, taught me to wash the grease off my hands by opening the petcock on the carb -- very easy and convenient, and I never caught on fire. Perhaps our older H had that carb and he put the IH petcock in for that purpose? I don't think hand cleaners were around in the 40's. And as far as I know it had the Monroe seat when new in 1947, not the deluxe IH seat -- I suppose it could have been dealer installed, but I doubt it. But, I was only 10 at the time the tractor was bought and knew even less then than I do now.

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SKK - Big Red Fan

01-09-2007 20:34:31




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to CNKS, 01-09-2007 18:46:21  
Old style engine mounts? Pls explain.



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CNKS

01-10-2007 06:57:17




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to SKK - Big Red Fan, 01-09-2007 20:34:31  
Someone can correct me, but I believe the first ones were rubber or some composite/rubber/metal combination. The later ones were metal, likely cast, not sure. The earlier ones caused looseness or sagging as they became worn. The newer ones are more or less indestructible.



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SKK - Big Red Fan

01-10-2007 12:00:17




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to CNKS, 01-10-2007 06:57:17  
CNKS,

Are those rubberized mounts still available anywhere for accurate restoration?



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CNKS

01-10-2007 18:30:53




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to SKK - Big Red Fan, 01-10-2007 12:00:17  
I don't know if anyone manufactures the old style, I also don't know if the newer ones interchange with the old. I have a 41 with the old style. The parts book says the mounts AND the frame rails changed at 96813. I should have checked that before I mentioned them. I think my mounts are ok, but one frame rail has been welded. But, out of nearly 100000 tractors, salvage should have some decent used ones.

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SKK - Big Red Fan

01-10-2007 19:10:56




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to CNKS, 01-10-2007 18:30:53  
Do we know what changed in the frame rails at this point?



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CNKS

01-10-2007 19:22:04




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to SKK - Big Red Fan, 01-10-2007 19:10:56  
Not offhand, perhaps Paul, in the top post can help.



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Wardner

01-09-2007 19:07:38




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to CNKS, 01-09-2007 18:46:21  
That mention of fire struck a nerve with me. A friend of mine has more than 20 John Deeres and earns his living doing excavations with his newer equipment.

He was cleaning one of his antiques with a coffee can of gas and a paint brush. The metal portion of the brush shorted against the battery terminal of the starter. He lost a tractor and some of the use of his right hand.

Thankfully, most of us have survived the foolish behavior of our youth with no permanent injuries.

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CNKS

01-10-2007 06:58:17




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to Wardner, 01-09-2007 19:07:38  
Yes, my dad got burned badly back in the 20's I think, when pouring gas into the intake manifold of an irrigation engine. I believe it had the cups to pour gas in like the very old tractors -- At least 10 years before I was born. Gas is dangerous, we all knew it, but it did not have as much respect as it does now. I used to pour gas on ant hills toss a match into it and watch the ants scurry around. When we burned tree limbs, etc, we would pour gas, stand back and toss a match in it. The most dangerous was when my mother used to soak my dad's and my greasy clothes in gas and then slosh them around. Let's just say I have never been burned. On a Ford 8N/9N, etc the exhaust pipe is directly below the gas tank. Overfill while hot, you hear the gas fizzle when it hits the pipe. Those things scare the poop out of me now, and I am MUCH more careful now than I was 50 years ago.

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Wardner

01-09-2007 18:29:11




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to Wardner, 01-09-2007 18:11:59  
SKK,

Get real. Don't be building this for your progeny. Do it for your own satisfaction. The odds are better than 50/50 your collection will be auctioned off after your funeral.

If I were to die tomorrow, I know my relatives would ship everything as fast as possible. They have no idea what has value and what is junk. It is all junk to them. Heck, they might not even try to sell the stuff. They will probably pay to have someone scrap everything. They won't even bother to notice that iron is worth around $200 per ton. To tell you the truth, I really don't care. I am not living to create a legasy.

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moseed

01-10-2007 06:25:56




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to Wardner, 01-09-2007 18:29:11  
So, how's your health lately??? Where are you located??



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Wardner

01-10-2007 10:30:53




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to moseed, 01-10-2007 06:25:56  
Do I smell a vulture?

My health is fine. I am 62 and look twenty years younger. I don't feel any different than when I was in, let's say, Vietnam. My uniform still fits. The last time I was a patient in a hospital was when I was four. I don't have a family physician and don't need one. I am in MA.



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SKK - Big Red Fan

01-10-2007 11:54:15




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to Wardner, 01-10-2007 10:30:53  
I'm not sure I could even fit my or Corp hat anymore, let alone the uniform.

I envy you. Just got home from having knee surgery this morning and had the nerves burned out of my back last Friday.

Only going on 55 and body is falling apart on me. Course maybe it was carrying around engine blocks by hand, 10,000 bales a summer, jumping off things? Who knows.

Hope you keep kickin that Grim Reaper in the butt for another 60 years, or run him down with a Farmall.

Thx for your info and good humor.

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moseed

01-10-2007 11:22:31




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to Wardner, 01-10-2007 10:30:53  
No worries, I've got my share of heirloom items that will hit the auction block as soon as I can't fog a mirror. I'm 53 and it sounds like you are in better shape than me. Your a good sport, best to you and your family.



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SKK - Big Red Fan

01-09-2007 20:18:00




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to Wardner, 01-09-2007 18:29:11  
My son has my 1982 CX500 Honda Turbo motorcycle, and is saving it for his sons. He has collected a few more as well. Got to have one for each boy.

He inventory's what I buy so my wife's brother can't claim it is his. Down to the wheel weights.

The stuff won't be auctioned off--but the kids won't hold on to the farms for very long. They think they are too much work. Foolish kids. They like acreages. Humbug! You never give away Tera!

I only do what I want, for my own pleasure and self-satisfaction. Went back to college in my mid thirties. Just something I wanted for me. Kids think I just wasted a lot of money and time.

Point is I think you can do this sort of thing both for yourself and your kids. Hopefully they will physically help and maybe gain a little ownership in the process. Might even learn a thing or two from the old man yet as well.

Also this way my son lets me see my tools too. I understand know why my dad use to get so mad at me when he couldn't find his wrenches. Payback I guess.

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Wardner

01-09-2007 18:47:48




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to Wardner, 01-09-2007 18:29:11  
SKK

Seeing that you don't have an ignition, there is one little detail that you might miss. The kill switch is different on the early mags. Instead of grounding the mag with an electric wire, you need a mag mounted pull switch to kill the motor. The switch is connected to what looks like a lawnmower throttle cable and terminates with a brass knob at the rear gas tank mount. 90% of these switches have been tossed and the kill function converted to the later style. You will probably find an illustation of the switch in the parts book.

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SKK - Big Red Fan

01-10-2007 11:57:25




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to Wardner, 01-09-2007 18:47:48  
I've looked in my parts book and they don't show the mag cable arrangement you are speaking about. I have book, TC-27E, however it is revision #3.

Do you have any pictures you could send me of the proper setup?

Also can you tell me if the original style rubberized motor mounts are still available?

Thx skk



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Wardner

01-10-2007 12:22:39




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to SKK - Big Red Fan, 01-10-2007 11:57:25  
I don't have a picture in my files. I'll try to post one in the next couple of days. Someone on this board informed us that the brass knob was being reproduced. I can't recall the source but a forum search might bring it up.



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SKK - Big Red Fan

01-09-2007 20:20:23




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 Re: 1940 H need the nitty-gritty in reply to Wardner, 01-09-2007 18:47:48  
This is a new one to me. I've never seen anyth8ing like you describe. I'll research. THX!



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