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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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is this right?

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Pat-CT

01-08-2007 06:23:18




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is this the correct wireing diagram for an H.... i just dont see how the battery is charged therew the starter Link




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Pat-CT

01-08-2007 07:53:20




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 Re: is this right? in reply to Pat-CT, 01-08-2007 06:23:18  
what if i dont have the resisotr does that mean i dont have a low charge or high charge



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Bob M

01-08-2007 08:18:34




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 Re: is this right? in reply to Pat-CT, 01-08-2007 07:53:20  
Pat - The quick answer is yes. There must be a resistor in series with the field ciruit in order to provide a "low" charge rate.

However if your H has a voltage regulator the "low - high" charge function is being controlled automatically by the regulator.

Note there's a LOT of tractors out there that have had their OEM cutouts replaced by voltage regulators. The field resistor is then typically abandoned in place - or removed entirely - as it no longer serves any function.

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Bob M

01-08-2007 07:20:27




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 Re: is this right? in reply to Pat-CT, 01-08-2007 06:23:18  
Pat - That diagram is correct!

Charging current from the ammeter does not past THROUGH the starter. Rather it merely uses the large terminal on the starter switch as a convenient point to attach the feed from the ammeter to the ungrounded battery post.

----

John T - My diagram is a bit simplifed!

What I label as the field "resistor" on the light switch is more properly a terminal strip. It's arranged essentially like this:

The outer terminal (the one that goes to the generator "F" terminal) is connected to the resistor, and also to a jumper strip that's connected to the light switch internals. The opposite end of the resistor is grounded directly to the light switch.

When the light switch is in the "H, D or B" positions the resistor jumper strip is grounded inside the light switch. Therefore the resistor is bypassed and generator field circuit is grounded.

However when the light switch is set to "L" the resistor ground bypass is opened. The field circuit is now grounded thru the resistor.

Make sense now??

---

Note - I created this diagram by tracing the OEM wiring on a friend's H several years ago. My memory of the details is now a bit murky. Functionally however the diagram IS correct!

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RustyFarmall

01-08-2007 07:45:43




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 Re: is this right? in reply to Bob M, 01-08-2007 07:20:27  
I agree, the diagram is correct, but I don't think an early Farmall with the cut-out relay system would have a saddle mounted starter switch. I don't think the saddle mounted switch appeared until the Super series, and by then the charging system used a voltage regulator. I do appreciate the diagrams, they have bailed me out several times, and are much, much better than the schematic included in the original manuals.

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John T

01-08-2007 07:34:02




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 Re: is this right? in reply to Bob M, 01-08-2007 07:20:27  
I hear ya n sure believe ya. The pic just caught my eye as it was so on topic to the question. Im NOT complaining mind you and knew YOU KNEW EXACTLY how it all worked. Us sparkies are probably the only dudes who notice such lil details lol

take care now

John T



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Pat-CT

01-08-2007 07:03:16




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 Re: is this right? in reply to Pat-CT, 01-08-2007 06:23:18  
ok my other question is is the feild restor needed because mine has the wire that is like in a coil but the inside like paper stuff just like flaked away



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John T

01-08-2007 07:29:47




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 Re: is this right? in reply to Pat-CT, 01-08-2007 07:03:16  
Its theoretically needed cuz it decreases the gennys charge rate in the LOW charge position so the battery dont overcharge n boil over or outgas. If its a complete open circuit (but actual resistive wire could still be intact regardless if other mounting physical stuff is flaking) it wouldnt charge at all in the Low charge setting. If the switch was always left in the HIGH charge the battery could overcharge.... (but see my HOWEVER below)

HOWEVERRRRR RRRRR I seldom ever (actually never I can recall) had one of those older 3 brush gennys harm or overcharge a battery as the lights may have been used time to time or periods of operation werent hours on end and those gennys werent super high chargers to begin with

i.e If the gennys Field was permanently dead grounded and the Low charge switch field resistor was never used, the risk of overcharging isnt all that great in my opinion HOWEVER if that field resistor is totally open she wouldnt charge at all in the Low Charge setting

John T

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Bob M

01-08-2007 07:27:09




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 Re: is this right? in reply to Pat-CT, 01-08-2007 07:03:16  
Hey Pat - That coiled resistor is the headlight dimming resistor. (And incidentally that flaking "paper stuff" on it I believe is asbestos...)

Anyway that resistor's presence/absence has no effect on the charging circuit. It only causes the headlights (which are already plenty dim!) to burn even dimmer when the switch is set to "L".

Note - If your tractor is now equipped with a voltage regulator the field resistor is not required nor used.

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Bob

01-08-2007 06:53:10




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 Re: is this right? in reply to Pat-CT, 01-08-2007 06:23:18  
I don't see anything out of the ordinary there... the current path is from the generator to the cutout, to the ammeter, to the stud on the starter switch, which acts as a junction point, connecting the charging lead from the ammeter to the battery cable. It does NOT show a path "therew" the starter.



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John T (Yo Bob M ?)

01-08-2007 06:49:58




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 Re: is this right? in reply to Pat-CT, 01-08-2007 06:23:18  
Pat,,,,, The battery is charged as its ungrounded - post is on the big starter switch post via that big honkin battery cable,,,,, ,,,then theres a wire leading to the Supply side of the Ammeter,,,,, ,,,then current goes through the ammmeter which is almost like a dead short circuit over to its other Load terminal,,,,, ,,then down to the BAT terminal on the Cutout Relay,,,,, ,,,,then through the cutout relay whose contacts close once the genny is working,,,,, ,,to the Armature post on the genny Yayyyyy yyyy

The battery is connected there at the big starter switch post which serves as the connection point for other (then the starter)wiring to the battery. If you follow the diagram you can see the curent path whereby the gennys output (its ARM post) gets to n charges the batetry once the cutout relay contacts close.

Yo Bob M, I have a question on that wiring diagram.

If the wire from the gennys Field post goes FIRST through that Field resistor up on the LHBD switch (i.e. the resistive Low Charge condition) how does the gennys field ever become dead non resistive grounded for the High Charge condition????? ??? Looks to me like the switch would have to have a connection terminal to the gennys field such that it can get a ground path EITHER straight to ground (high charge) or via that resistor (low charge). The way the diagram looks it can ONLY be in the resistive Low Charge cuz how can it ever short by pass around that series in line field resistance as the diagram shows????? ??

Im sure you know this stuff (especially IHC) better then me so I take the diagram as a typo or pictorial error or else I dont understand this at alllll l lol

talk to me

God Bless yall

John T

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Bob

01-08-2007 07:02:29




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 Re: is this right? in reply to John T (Yo Bob M ?), 01-08-2007 06:49:58  
Boy, you're sharp, JohnT!

I've looked at that diagram a hundred times, and never noticed that!

Not to answer for BobM, but he sure did make a small error there... BOTH ends of the resistor ARE connected to separate tabs on the switch, which is a GOOD thing mechanically, as well as electrically, since the resistor would break off in short order, if one end were left "flopping in the breeze" like that!

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RustyFarmall

01-08-2007 06:38:00




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 Re: is this right? in reply to Pat-CT, 01-08-2007 06:23:18  
Maybe Bob M will jump in here and explain a bit. The diagram in question is a bit confusing. The starter in the diagram has the starter switch mounted directly on the starter, which would be correct for a Super H or Super M, but is not correct for an H or M with a cut-out relay.



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John T

01-08-2007 06:57:53




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 Re: is this right? in reply to RustyFarmall, 01-08-2007 06:38:00  
Rusty, Thanks to guys like you n Bob n Bob M n Allan etc youre gonna make a Farmall man out of me yet lol. Im knee deep to a Ferris Wheel in theory but havent owned Farmalls in so many years I forget physical things like what types of starter switches (on starter saddle type or stand alone push buttons up on the pedestal) were used on what model tractors grrrrr rrrrr

Look forward to Bob M's arrival cuz I had another question (see post below)

Yall take care now

Ol John T and all

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RustyFarmall

01-08-2007 07:08:22




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 Re: is this right? in reply to John T, 01-08-2007 06:57:53  
John T. The location of the starter switch gets to be a bit confusing sometimes. For instance, I have both a 1940 H and an M. The original starter switch location was in the rear fuel tank mount, and a small rod went through a hole in the steering post, so that you could push on the rod with your foot to engage the switch. In my opinion, that is just about the most ackward arrangement ever. I converted both of those tractors over to the steering post mounted switch.

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John T

01-08-2007 07:15:42




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 Re: is this right? in reply to RustyFarmall, 01-08-2007 07:08:22  
Yeah I kinda got more concerned over that (switch type n location) cuz a while back I answered a starter question but only later realized it wasnt a stand alone pedestal 2 pole switch but the starter mounted saddle switch so my advice to jump by pass around the switch direst to the starter post sorta left egg on my face or foot in mouth NOBODY SAID NUTITN THOUGH MAYBE I GOT BY WITH IT LOL Im a JD man now for years n know most of the physical location stuff I should stick more over there but love the fun chat all over the boards

John T

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RustyFarmall

01-08-2007 07:31:47




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 Re: is this right? in reply to John T, 01-08-2007 07:15:42  
I like to visit all of the boards. It is a good way to learn about the tractors I am not familiar with, and once in awhile, I can even answer a question or two. I don't care what color the tractor is. A carburetor is still a carburetor, a charging system is still a charging system, and likewise with the ignition system



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