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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Opinions: CNKS, GuyFay and Bermuda Ken

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Hugh MacKay

01-05-2007 04:45:02




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Currently on page 3 there is discussion about a Farmall 140 with transmission and touch control hydraulics having a casting date code May 65, and serial number 37111 being Nov-Dec 67. I've asked him for torque tube and engine block casting date codes.

Watch this, and I'd like your opinions. This is the widest spread I've ever seen between date codes and serial numbers.




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dean thornton

01-05-2007 18:07:30




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 Re: Opinions: CNKS, GuyFay and Bermuda Ken in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-05-2007 04:45:02  

Hi , I cannot find a casting number on the block, maybe I dont know where to look.Last four serial numbers are 7110. The first number is either 2 ore 3. If I had to guess it looks like it would have been a 2. Thanks, Dean.



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Bob M

01-05-2007 07:49:59




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 Re: Opinions: CNKS, GuyFay and Bermuda Ken in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-05-2007 04:45:02  
Hugh – Like the others suggest those odd-dated parts most likely have been replaced at some point.

My father in law has Super M which he purchased new. By it's serial number and date codes on most of castings the tractor is a 1953. However the date codes on several front end parts and rear axle housings cover 1951 thru 1957 – a range of 6 years.

Reason is some years ago the tractor got away on time (fortunately without an operator on board…) and rolled down a steep hill. It executed a forward somersault then rolled several times before coming to rest. A bunch of parts from the local boneyard were required to replace those damaged in the rollover – hence the wide range of date codes it carries today.

The other Farmalls on the farm (another SM and a pair of SH’s) each show only a 3 or 4 month spread of date codes. ...Bob M

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Hugh MacKay

01-06-2007 03:41:02




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 Re: Opinions: CNKS, GuyFay and Bermuda Ken in reply to Bob M, 01-05-2007 07:49:59  
Bob: I know why, but as I see it there are two reasons. Most of us have broke the odd casting when a tractor was yet only 5 years old. I broke a 130 final drive in 1962, 300 front bolster in 64. At that early stage replacments had to come from IH and yes they have a different date code. Probably even scrap yard castings would have had a different code.

Then there are these guys building tractors from 2 or more doner tractors, and not even trying to get it right. I saw a Farmall 140 in the photo adds the other day, advertized as a farm fresh one owner tractor. To read the promo, you'd think the one owner took it to bed with him every night. Well guess what; it had cast spoke front wheels and pre 1951 tyrods. 58 was the first 140 and they never had cast wheels. Another example this time a Farmall 100 with a 6 digit serial number. Got to be a Super A with 100 sheet metal.

My point in all this discussion was not to chalange what we believe about original tractors having casting codes with 2-3 month spread and tractor built a month later. The purpose of this forum has been helping one another. Helping the new guys make sure they are getting what they think they are seeing is just as important as help with a mechanical problem. AWARENESS is what it's all about. A 40-60 Farmall doesn't look right with cast spoke front wheels, just as your SH and SM wouldn't look right with pressed steel disc front wheels.

Several years ago I had a fellow try to tell me, pressed steel front wheels were an option on a SH. By the way that SH also had band brakes. He told me he could take me up the road to a senile old man that bought the SH new. Even talked about swearing on the bible. Finally he kicked me off the property. My mission with this is nothing more than awareness.

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CNKS

01-05-2007 06:50:05




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 Re: Opinions: CNKS, GuyFay and Bermuda Ken in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-05-2007 04:45:02  
I'm not in the same category with Guy and Ken, but what Ken says is correct. The history of a tractor, even if in the same family is hard to remember. I think, that in general, you will be hard pressed to find a casting code and serial number more than about 6 months apart. The few tractors that I have extensively repaired -- meaning the tractor was completely disassembled and I saw all casting codes as I worked on the tractor, have not been more than 3 or 4 months apart. The most common exceptions, which do not apply to the 140, are if a tractor is shipped with a NF, SF, or WF and the owner later changes front ends, then all bets are off. As Ken says any deviation from that is due to replacement parts, new or old.

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Roger Mills

01-05-2007 06:30:04




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 Re: Opinions: CNKS, GuyFay and Bermuda Ken in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-05-2007 04:45:02  
I did a restore on a Z model Minnie Mo and ran into the same problem. The engine was the side valve 'RE' engine that we thought was a later replacement because the tractor SN was a '41 and the RE engine did not come out till years later. It turned out that they were cleaning out the inventory and the tractor was built up from leftovers. In this case we had the original order documents so we could show that it was factory built.

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bermuda ken

01-05-2007 06:04:48




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 Re: Opinions: Bermuda Ken in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-05-2007 04:45:02  
Tractors are made up of many parts. Some of which may have been added/replaced over time.

Unless the 140 tractor in question is a 1 owner tractor, with a verified history, it is hard to know who has had their hands (wrenches too) on the machine.

Not being able to positivley ID the serial number adds a cloud of doubt to the whole topic....



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