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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Still no attempt to start

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ToddH

01-02-2007 17:38:09




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Hi, I took advice from an earlier posting for the starter on my 1953 super C. I cleaned the communtator. The brushes are good with adequate spring force. The sleeve bushings are good. The armature can be rotated by hand easily. Now (unlike before the cleaning), when I connect it directly to a good battery it spins up very fast but it does not try to torque out of my hand as someone said it should. I mounted it and cleaned all connections including battery and grounds but no attempt to crank. Then I realized that when I pull out the starter switch, the amp meter goes slightly neg (as always) but as soon as I trigger the starter the amp meter goes back to zero and there is no sign of any attempt of starter turning. I checked the voltage regulator and contacts look good and not welded closed. Now when I pull out starter the amp meter doesn’t even go slightly negative as just mentioned. I thought maybe I should buy a new starter switch and fuse (probably good to have on hand anyway). Any comments on this and also if the improvements of the starter are adequate or should I also pursue a shop to rebuild. Any suggestions where to buy parts? Thanks so much for all of your suggestions and may your New Year find you well! ToddH

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ToddHt

01-04-2007 06:51:39




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 Update and thank you in reply to ToddH , 01-02-2007 17:38:09  
Hi, I disconnected the battery and jumped it directly to the starter. When I pushed the starter button, the starter turned but it did not engage the ring gear. Now as I type I wonder if I had the pos and neg cables reversed (I’ll have to try again this evening). With the Battery connected directly to the starter, the ammeter again went slightly neg with ignition switch pulled but went back to zero when I pushed starter button. I then removed the battery to look into the control box and I noticed the ignition switch has one wire coming from starter and one going to regulator but also a broken one which I assume went to a fuse but the fuse holder rusted away. But I assume this fuse is just for the lights and as long as this broken wire isn’t touching ground it should not be affecting the ammeter going to zero when ign switch is pulled. I guess I should use an ohm meter next and touch ground and the ends of each ignition switch to see if a lack of insulation is allowing part of a Negative wire to touch the positive ground. Thanks so much for all your past help and any future comments! ToddH

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teddy52food

01-03-2007 06:54:00




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 Re: Still no attempt to start in reply to ToddH , 01-02-2007 17:38:09  
Do you still have the short ground cable that goes to the box under the steering shaft? If so, that is maybe the problem. Try using a good heavy set of jumper cables (use both cables) from the battery ground to the starter mounting bolts. If it works then, that is your problem. Over time corrosion forms a resistance between the box and the casting. I run a good heavy cable direct from the battery to starter on more than one C & they spin over much faster.

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gene bender

01-03-2007 02:05:33




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 Re: Still no attempt to start in reply to ToddH , 01-02-2007 17:38:09  
you dont have to pull any sw to make the starter go. Is the saddle type sw clean and do you have it mounted correct as if its backwards it wont energize the starter. The amp guage has nothing to do with starter running it have a wire running to the ammeter from the batt terminal on the saddle sw. Is the little button on the starter where the saddle sw mounts good enough for the sw to make a good connection when you pull the lever if the starter ran on the bench it will run mounted on the tractor if things are correct.

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Allan In NE

01-03-2007 04:36:48




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 Re: Still no attempt to start in reply to gene bender, 01-03-2007 02:05:33  
That's right. The amp gauge doesn't do squat, but it does tell you what is going on.

If he has draw until he hits that switch and the amp gauge immediately goes back up to "0", it is screaming at you that all electrical continuity has been lost.

Just like on your car. If the headlights are on, you hit the starter and they go out, the first place you look is for a bad battery or it’s connections.

Dunno,

Allan

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John T

01-02-2007 19:08:50




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 Re: Still no attempt to start in reply to ToddH , 01-02-2007 17:38:09  
Todd, All there is on that starter circuit is the battery n cables n starter switch n starter. Nowwwww w it sounds like the cables n batery are alllll lllll l okay correct??? (If NOT check all of them n load test the battery and insure its good and its charged)

Sooooo if the battery n all cables n grounds are good but no cranking that only leaves the switch n starter.

Id isolate the switch or starter first by by pass jumping around the starter switch i.e use jumper cables from the hot ungrounded battery post direct down to the starter post or starter side of the switch n see what happens????? If she cranks then but NOT via the switch, its either a bad switch or a bad cable or connection on the switch. If she still dont crank even when you hot wire by pass with big jumpers direct to the starter, then it must be the starter.

That alllll being said, the same problem can happen if theres even one single bad ground or cable or connection you know, sooooo Id remove, clean n wire brush, n reattach each n every battery n starter n ground n switch connection FIRST ALSO if the ground cable is on any thin or rusty sheet metal component, try reatatching it to a solid clean heavy frame bolt location, that may be the problem.

FINALLY my guess is its the starter switch or else a bad cable or connection. In general if when you depress the starter switch the lights dim way down badly and/or the battery voltage drops drastically, THE SWITCH IS OKAY BUT THE STARTERS BAD However, if when you depress the starter switch the lights dont dim much and the batery voltage dont drop much, Id say the switch is bad.

Hope this helps??? lemme know

Ol John T and all in Indiana

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Allan In NE

01-02-2007 18:08:21




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 Re: Still no attempt to start in reply to ToddH , 01-02-2007 17:38:09  
Just as soon as you hit that starter switch the ammeter goes right back to "0"?

You've got battery/connections/cable problems. Something is loose or corroded somewhere.

The fact that the meter immediately goes to zero tells you that you’re even losing ignition voltage.

Allan



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ToddH

01-02-2007 18:34:55




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 Yes, as soon as starter is hit the ammeter goes to in reply to Allan In NE, 01-02-2007 18:08:21  
Allan, Yes just as soon as I hit the starter switch the ammeter goes right back to "0". Thank you for your help.



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Nat 2

01-03-2007 06:44:11




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 Re: Yes, as soon as starter is hit the ammeter goe in reply to ToddH, 01-02-2007 18:34:55  
If the cable ends have been replaced with those clamp-on types, you also need to take those apart and clean them really well. Sometimes, it even helps to clip the cable back and strip some fresh wire to insert into the clamp.

Do what we did in troubleshooting mine:

1. Use one side of your jumper cables to bypass the hot wire running from battery to the starter switch. If tractor starts, clean the hot wire cable connections.
2. Use one side of your jumpe cables to bypass the ground wire running from the battery to the frame. If the tractor starts, clean the ground cable connections.

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ToddH

01-03-2007 07:04:04




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 Thanks to all of you and this site! in reply to Nat 2, 01-03-2007 06:44:11  
I’m hoping to get off work early enough this evening to try what everyone is saying. Thanks so much, I’d be lost without your help! ToddH



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