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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Starter needed or just maintenance?

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ToddH

12-18-2006 09:23:58




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Hi, My 1953 super C will not turn over. Battery load tester shows battery to be good. I dismounted the starter and hooked jumper cables from battery. When I push the starter button the armature turns but takes two or three seconds to get up speed and even then I don"t think it has much torque/strength. All four brushes have about 1/4" before metal tab would hit commutator and springs are keeping brushes against commutator. Commutator looks a little dirty with build up between each bar. Any recommendations for cleaning and if not successful should I buy a rebuilt one and where. Thank you for any comments! ToddH

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gab

12-18-2006 19:04:47




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 Re: Starter needed or just maintenance? in reply to ToddH, 12-18-2006 09:23:58  
Remove the starter button and touch the jumper cable to the post on the starter. I've had more trouble with the starter switch than any thing else on my tractor, one about every five years. Jim



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gab

12-18-2006 19:03:58




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 Re: Starter needed or just maintenance? in reply to ToddH, 12-18-2006 09:23:58  
Remove the starter button and touch the jumper cable to the post on the starter. I've had more trouble with the starter switch than any thing else on my tractor, one about every five years. Jim



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Marty Johns

12-18-2006 17:34:57




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 Re: Starter needed or just maintenance? in reply to ToddH, 12-18-2006 09:23:58  
I have a local shop, (out in the country) has been there for years! I took my A starter to them and it was rebuilt for $60.00 like NEW!!! just find a reputiblr shop and you will di alright!!!!! !!!



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CENTAUR

12-18-2006 11:17:09




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 Re: Starter needed or just maintenance? in reply to ToddH, 12-18-2006 09:23:58  
Put new longer brushes in their.Replace bushings if needed and always lube.Keep your original starter if possible as they are better. Do not turn Armature if it has one or more segments burnt as that would show a bad winding or windings. Do not turn since it can cleaned with sanding unless it will not conform to the new brushes CENTAUR



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John T

12-18-2006 10:18:00




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 Re: Starter needed or just maintenance? in reply to ToddH, 12-18-2006 09:23:58  
Todd, Sounds like theres indeed some sort of starter problem cuz with no load when you attach a good battery to her she oughta torque kick real hard n spin fast instantly. I begin with clean/buff/polish/brush the commutator shiny as non abrasively as possible and make sure the springs are pushing the brushes down tightly. While the armature is out you can use an ohmmeter to make sure the armature isnt shorted out cuz none of the commutator segments should show any continuity to the shaft and also examine to see if any of the armature is dragging/rubbing up against any of the field poles due to worn bushings. If so the bushings need replaced and hopefully????? ? she hasnt gotten hot n ruined any armature wire insulation causing a shorted armature. Such a short might manifest in burns n pits on the commutator,,,,, as that burned electrical smell,,,,, ,,,as rub marks on the armature and field poles. If the armature isnt shorted and theres no rub marks on it or the field poles and the bushings and commutator are all good, then I suspect a field problem like a partial short or dis continuity where the 2 are spliced together or an open circuit or a dead short like to the starters interior frame.

My guess just sittin here is maybe a bad/shorted/open field winding????? Are there any old fashioned starter n genny shops in your area???

John T

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JayWalt

12-18-2006 09:59:24




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 Re: Starter needed or just maintenance? in reply to ToddH, 12-18-2006 09:23:58  
You can try cleaning the comm. People use anything from stiff pencil erasers, to index card. I use 1600grit sandpaper (dont confuse this with 160grit). It is almost as sooth as paper. If you clean the comm and see any blueish colored pads, the commutator has a burnt spot and it pretty much toast. Also make sure the springs actually push the brushes onto the commutator decent since they seem worn down quite a bit, mine are almost an inch long. If this doesnt work, the commutator may be toast. If it has been turned or worn below spec, This can cause the start to have no torque.

I'm not sure if these startes are permenant magnet type or have a field. If they have magnets, the magnets might need to be re-magnetized. Heat, shock can cause magnets to loose their magnetism, but It's quite unlikely.

To clean the comm, I normally chuck the armature in my drill presss (remove the table or swing it back), then use 1600grit sandpaper or whatever you desire and try to keep uniform pressure and a constant back and forth motion.

Hope you figure it out. The starter you describe seems weak. It should nearly come out of your hand when you hook the battery up to it.

Most brushed motors that loose power either have a magnet issue, or more then likley a brush-commutator issue. Altho a burnt winding is not unheard of, but should be noticeable if you disassemble it.. Be sure to note the location of any spacers or thrust washers on the commutator.

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old

12-18-2006 09:49:11




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 Re: Starter needed or just maintenance? in reply to ToddH, 12-18-2006 09:23:58  
Sounds like you need a rebuild. Bushings are probably bad, most starters use bushings instead of bearing and when they get worn they the starter will drag. Check you local phone book or ask at the local auto parts store and they should know of a rebuilder shop in your area. I have found that it costs about 50% less to have one rebuilt then to buy a new/rebuilt starter.

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JayWalt

12-18-2006 10:06:07




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 Re: Starter needed or just maintenance? in reply to old, 12-18-2006 09:49:11  
AHH forgot about the bushings, yes check those too. Also be sure to use a reputable shop and ask what all they service. The comm, brushes, beagings?

My dad works at a stone quarry and is the maintenance supervisor, head electrician. They had a 500hp rebuilt for their stone crusher and when they got it back and installed it, it would just sit there, draw about 400amps and blow the overload. They'd unhook the load and it would run fine. Dad called the shop, asked how far they turned the comm, turns out it was a quite a bit below spec. That shows when the comm is cut too small, you have not torque. This motor was out of the 40s, so a new armature wasnt availble. Turns out they had a brand new armature in a disply showing off the quarry. Slapped it in there and she's purring like a kitten now. =)

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ToddH

12-18-2006 10:38:14




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 Thanks to all of you in reply to JayWalt, 12-18-2006 10:06:07  
I'll hunt for a local shop.



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