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My 130 failed me this am.

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Hugh MacKay

12-08-2006 10:15:58




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Got my 130 out this morning to plow snow. Going for about 1/2 hour, and noticed engine laboring as though timing slipped and advanced. All of a sudden it quit, back firing in the process. Now when I turn engine over on starter, I seem to be getting backfiring from two cylinders and nothing else. Fire is good, tried rotating distributor to see if it was plain old advance. Rotor is turning.

I'm leaning towards valves maybe even camshaft. Before I take that valve cover off, am I missing something?

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Jimmy King

12-09-2006 07:44:19




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
Hugh My Dad and I were in Springfield one time and it was raining went through a big puddle 350 chev 1970 it started running like you described. dried the cap still was that way, put a new timing chain on still had a problem it turned out the cap looked like it was dry but saterated with water, put on a new cap it fixed it.



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Hugh MacKay

12-09-2006 09:07:34




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Jimmy King, 12-09-2006 07:44:19  
Jimmy: read my update on page one.



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Brownie 45

12-08-2006 16:51:20




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
Wet or cracked distributor cap or rotor? Layer of ice in the air cleaner cup that broke loose --but that would cause black smoke & over-fueling.



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Hugh MacKay

12-08-2006 18:43:47




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Brownie 45, 12-08-2006 16:51:20  
Brownie: I did look distributor cap and rotor over quit well. There was moisture, I wiped all off with a clean cloth. Couldn't see any cracks, terminals were in good shape. It didn't make any difference.

Breather had new fresh oil about the time tractor was last used, about a month ago.



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Paul Shuler

12-08-2006 15:42:29




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
Dog gone Hugh, hate to here that. Hope it turns out to be the ice thing. Two years ago we got a little snow and I went out to push it around a little and one of the seals in my hydraulic pump let go and dumped all my fluid into the engine. Been running fine till I needed it to do some real work for a change. And when it's colder than a well diggers foot your fingers sure get cold working on these old girls.
Best of luck Hugh,
Paul

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Hugh MacKay

12-08-2006 18:59:11




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Paul Shuler, 12-08-2006 15:42:29  
Paul: There you have it, those tractors were all lubed for fall, working fine when put in shed about a month ago, proof that when you do nothing with them, they never cause trouble. Actually we haven't been getting the cold temps, just hanging in below freezing mark, so the fingers did quite well.

If it turns out to be very serious, I'll just move the blade to the 140. I've always resisted that as blade and snow plowing take their tole. My SA and 140 are both low hour tractors, while 130 has seen more than it's share of bruises. It might just become my parts department.

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Andrew Z

12-08-2006 13:57:26




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
I had that happen on My Super C, turned out that distrubtor gear had been stripped and jumped out of time!! repaced that and now it runs great again!!

Andrew



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Hugh MacKay

12-08-2006 13:37:18




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
To all you folks, Steve, RB, Bob, Michael, scotty, Randy, Jim and Steven, thanks for your replys. Read what I've said to Michael and Jim. I think I'll start with the carburator. It has been ocasionally leaking thus I had the gas turned off. Tractor has been in the shed close to a month, never started. I'm thinking gas would leak out, however water might not. Just might have been a chunk of ice frozen to bottom of carb. That might have stayed in place for that first half hour then wedged under float. That may be cured by morning, as I dumped a cup of methyl hydrate in the tank.

That failing I guess it's bring it to TDC on compression. It distributor is right, then I'll hit the valve cover.

Bob, it is 130 and not 140, however no deal, unless your waving US green backs. Don't come until I get the blade changed over to the 140. I probably wont do a whole lot with 130 this fall, if I have to go into cam and timing gears. The 130 needs a set of pistons and sleeves, front crank seal is leaking. Probably I'll pull the engine and have it professionally rebuilt, if it requires much wrenching. I will keep you posted on what I find.

This 130 has seen a lot of hard work, not near as tight as my SA or 140. Plain and simple, like me it's years show. I may just part it, if I do that there are quite a few new components in the past 5 years. But you know what, this will be the 3 time I started to part this 130, and each of the first two times, I stumbled onto a deal on parts needed.

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stan2270

12-08-2006 13:28:31




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
Hugh, having benefited so much from your advice in the past I wish I could return the favour but I"m just too dang much of a novice. Any how I"m sure you will have your 130 fixed in no time and look forward to reading your "fixed it" post. Cheers mate. Stan in TN



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Hugh MacKay

12-08-2006 13:40:33




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to stan2270, 12-08-2006 13:28:31  
Stan: Your unusually humble.



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steve from mo - dangit!

12-08-2006 11:49:47




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 One quick check before you open it up. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
Line up the timing marks and check if the rotor points to #1. If the timing has slipped, it should be obvious. Good luck.



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RB Mn.

12-08-2006 11:27:05




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
before tearing into it do simple things first, check that you have good fresh gas flowing into the carb, sounds like it could be a fuel problem.be kind to others.



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Bob M

12-08-2006 11:08:16




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
Hugh – I hate when that happens!

----

I’m not familiar with the 140 and it’s relatives. However it indeed sounds like the timing has gotten messed. And on the H and M tractors this happens when the cam drive gear key works loose and shears the key, or when the cam gear hub breaks.

HOWEVER before going inside the engine, swap in a fresh set of spark plugs and see if it starts. Reason: In cool, damp weather I’ve had carburetor ice cause the engine to run rich and foul the plugs – the result being pretty much the symptoms you describe.

If new plugs don’t help, do as Scotty suggests to see if the distributor is still in time with the crankshaft. If the timing is way out then somehow either the camshaft or distributor drive gears have jumped time – you’ll need to go inside the motor and find out which.

Alternatively you can just leave your 140 right where it died. I’d be more than happy to run up there this weekend and haul it away for you(!)

Good luck and keep us posted what you find! Bob

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Michael Soldan

12-08-2006 11:07:20




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
Hugh, there isn't a build up of ice in the carb causing it to run as described..snowmobile will do that, build a layer of ice and you think something has gone south and all it is ..is ice. Just a thought. I'm pretty much dug out, over a foot of snow here and I hear you guys south of us got more!



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Hugh MacKay

12-08-2006 12:32:10




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Michael Soldan, 12-08-2006 11:07:20  
Michael: I'd buy the gas idea, if the tractor hadn't started laboring as though too far advanced in timing. I did think about distributor drive gears but those were all new 8 years ago and have been well lubricated since. I must admit it is like another tractor I saw quit from stripped distributor drive gears. I replaced 130 drive gears when I had distributor rebuilt.

Getting back to the ice in carb, I probably should take it off first. The carburator sometimes leaks, thus I had the gas turned off. Gas would leak out, water probably wouldn't.

Now, for the snow, I think the bulk of it went between us. Even on the next line north there way more snow than we have, and neither hold a candle to London. I just drove down to Watford, and not much snow down there. Here on Cuddy Drive, the snow is all in our door yards, and along fence rows. I can see soybean stubble within 100' of the house. We really only had snow from 7 am to 10 am yesterday. After that it was all wind, and of course it's 4 miles of open country to the west. I can see unobstructed that far.

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farmallman

12-08-2006 12:51:15




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 12:32:10  
Hey Hugh.
Have you ever went back to Advantage to get those coulters you were looking at?



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farmallman

12-08-2006 12:21:11




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Michael Soldan, 12-08-2006 11:07:20  
You live in exeter, right? I drove thru there on thursday nite and the weather was really crappy. At times i couldn't see a foot in front of me. Is it still that bad?



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Michael Soldan

12-08-2006 12:43:56




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to farmallman, 12-08-2006 12:21:11  
Hey Farmallman, yes Thursday night got things started and Friday was just cruel, we're all dug out now and the sun broke through..a winter wonderland, very pretty but the clean up!. Our local brain trust upset a snow plow south of town this morning, looked like he was winging back and going to fast, got pulled sideways and hit a big bank and next thing he knew all the change was falling out of his pocket..What were ya doing in Exeter Town?

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farmallman

12-08-2006 12:47:42




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Michael Soldan, 12-08-2006 12:43:56  
I have a new job up near Listowel and drive on hwy 83 to get to Hwy 23 and Exeter is on 83

Nice Town.



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scotty

12-08-2006 10:50:42




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
Hi Hugh, Im with Randy on this one. Take your #1 plug out and rotate until TDC and se where the rotor is pointing. If it aint pointin in the right spot, its time to take the timing cover off. What a PITA, I know ! If it is in the right spot are you gettin gas flow ? I just had to pull the carb off the 42 and it was all gumed up. Cleaned it all up and blew it out and it seems fine now.


scotty

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Randy in NE

12-08-2006 10:29:07




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
If you are like me I would guess that your warranty just expired. I would pull #1 plug and roll the engine over to TDC and see where the rotor is pointing. Are you getting a good spark? All of the wires on firmly? Getting gas?



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Jim Poston

12-08-2006 10:28:04




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
I had a similar situation a couple of months ago on a 130. I had failed to lubricate the distributor shaft and gear and they were extremely worn down. Retimed and it ran for 1/2 hour and did basically what you are describing.
Had to replace gears.



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Hugh MacKay

12-08-2006 12:54:17




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Jim Poston, 12-08-2006 10:28:04  
Jim: I know what your talking about, a neighbor called one day and that is what he had wrong. When I rebuilt the distributor 8 years ago my drive gears had some wear, thus I replaced all, and they have been lubricated regularly since. I suppose one should never say never. I will heed your advice.

About those tools, as I recall a wheel wrench and a spark plug wrench came with our 130 when new. That was it though.

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Steven@AZ

12-08-2006 10:27:54




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 Re: My 130 failed me this am. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-08-2006 10:15:58  
I don't know how the cam gear or crank gear is attached on those engines, but if it's anything like an H or M I have heard of those shearing off the key/wrecking the keyway and causing timing problems similar to what you are describing.

I've also had a weird backfire caused by a fuel issue as well.



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