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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Lift All's

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BOBM25

12-05-2006 19:18:27




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Ok, whats the deal with these things. The pump on the diesels is different from the one for the gassers. They have differnt part numbers from the factory. The gas one has the supply line (big hose) on the inside, by the motor. The diesels have it on the outside away from the motor. I'm pretty sure I have one for a gas on my diesel. When I bought it, it wouldn't lift anything. With the help of some pipe fittings, I switched the hoses around, put the big hose in the little hole and the little hose in the big hole. Now it works. Why are they different? Both pumps run off the cam, right, because the distributor sits behind the pump? or is there another gear in there that reverses the direction? Besides looking stupid because the hoses have to wrap around each other, it really makes it tough to hook the hoses up. My pressure line is rubber hose now, but the originality police say it needs to be a steel line that lays along the block. Do the gassers have a steel pressure line, or rubber hose? If they do, how does it go to the outside port? Sure hope NC didn't take ALL the good mechanics with him, cuz I'm confused!

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Geoff NY

12-06-2006 13:35:39




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 Re: Lift All's in reply to BOBM25, 12-05-2006 19:18:27  
I have a steel line around here somewhere, it"s off of a SWD 6. Also have a diesel hydraulic pump that needs a seal replaced. If you have no luck finding one e-mail me at hallocktractor@optonline.net, I"m trying to clean out some of this stuff, as we are going to be moving. Geoff



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D Slater

12-05-2006 19:53:23




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 Re: Lift All's in reply to BOBM25, 12-05-2006 19:18:27  
Failed to see which tractor you have. Sounds like maybe a SMD or SMTAD though. If so the rotation is different between gas and diesel pumps because diesel have a idler gear between crank gear and cam gear and SM gas don't. If you are using the IH pump I don't think the gas will bolt on the diesel and bottom pump mounting bolts line up. Never had a reason to try though so can't say positive. But I'm almost positive bolt pattern is different.If you have a SMD the origial inside line was steel and suction was rubber. If gas both were rubber. The diesel manifold that bolts to hydraulic pump should have 1 inch pipe threads to outside and 3/4 inch to inside. If you can get a # off pump it may tell me if its a diesel pump. Without looking at tractor or being sure which tractor you have thats about all I have.

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BOBM25

12-06-2006 05:34:03




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 Re: Lift All's in reply to D Slater, 12-05-2006 19:53:23  
Its a SMTAD, but the pump has the 1 inch hole on the inside, 3/4 hole on the outside. Sounds like a gas pump and manifold block on a diesel engine. Thats why the hoses need hooked up backwards because the pump runs backwards, right? I'd sure like to find the right pump and that steel pressure line. Anybody know where I could get one?



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Nat 2

12-06-2006 07:28:08




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 Re: Lift All's in reply to BOBM25, 12-06-2006 05:34:03  
Forget about ever finding the steel pressure line. The only tractor that has that is the SMTAD, which as you know, is a VERY rare machine. You could probably get one custom bent.

AFAIK, they are not reproducing the diesel pumps, so your only recourse is a used pump off of a SMD, SMTAD, 400D or 450D.



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D Slater

12-06-2006 06:16:30




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 Re: Lift All's in reply to BOBM25, 12-06-2006 05:34:03  
I looked to make sure and the gas pump 4 mounting bolts will not line up on your diesel. The drive gears are different also,but that could be changed and maybe a outside chance parts of both pumps could be cobbled togeather to bolt up.You have the wrong manifold for sure the suction or big hose is to outside on diesel.The steel line on original went from manifold up over oil filter and then had a short hose if remote control valve was used or longer hose back to reservoir if not used. steel line used fittings on both ends and hose was not part of line.

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BOBM25

12-06-2006 09:20:43




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 Re: Lift All's in reply to D Slater, 12-06-2006 06:16:30  
I'm starting to get more lost. Do I have a gas pump with gas manifold running backwards, or do I have a diesel pump with a gas manifold running forward? I have a gas manifold. The big hole is inside and the small one is outside. That I know. If I have a gas pump, does it hurt anything running backwards? It works good. Lifts an 8"x60'auger and a Glencoe 5 shank disk chisel. I can make a new manifold block, I know my way around a machine shop. That way I could get rid of all the stupid fittings. I need to check my pump part number, but I'm thinking its a gasser's pump.

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D Slater

12-06-2006 10:22:40




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 Re: Lift All's in reply to BOBM25, 12-06-2006 09:20:43  
Think I'm lost also. A complete aluminum IH style gas hydraulic pump like used on 6 series SM,SMTA,400,450 and some W series doesn't have the same bolt pattern to mount to front cover as a complete diesel pump for same series tractors. So if you do have a gas pump on your diesel something other than a straight bolt on has been done. The bottom 2 bolts that mount pump to cover are close togeather compared to gas. Do you have suction pipe from reservoir (rear hole)ending up to engine side or away from engine now? As other posted the original pipe was only used on lower production tractors SMD with factory live hydraulic, SMTAD and I think same pipe and block was used on some SWD6 and SWD6 T/A .

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CNKS

12-05-2006 19:48:27




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 Re: Lift All's in reply to BOBM25, 12-05-2006 19:18:27  
Pump/distributer rotation. The distributer rotates clockwise on the A through the 450 It rotates counterclockwise on the 9/600/650 series and all diesels, regardless of model through the 650. Thus if you have a gas pump on a diesel you are running it backwards.



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Al in Mn

12-05-2006 19:36:58




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 Re: Lift All's in reply to BOBM25, 12-05-2006 19:18:27  
If you are talking about the lifts on gas starting diesel, there is a difference. The gas tractor pump rotates the opposite direction from the diesel.



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BOBM25

12-05-2006 19:48:29




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 Re: Lift All's in reply to Al in Mn, 12-05-2006 19:36:58  
Yes I am. How and or why?



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