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purists

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Roger Mills

12-02-2006 09:05:09




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Wisconsin Historical Society has paint chip charts for Farmall and International tractors and equipment of virtually any model. Also pix of most. I found a pix of a B dated Sept. 11, 1939 on 32" wheels. It shows that the oil filter cover, caps, muffler, steering wheel, seat, shift knob and Mag were not painted with the tractor. Also does not have IH decal, just M D Farmall banner and circle B. Several other pix show carb, air cleaner, tin and brackets, steering wheel, knobs, switch box and cover, wiring and clips, starter, generator, tool and battery box, gauges, caps, breather, air intake, muffler, wheel centers, and seat were not on tractor being painted. Open axles had a cardbord like tube fit over them as did rear hubs but exact models for these is unknown. Just FYI
Go to wisconsinhistory.org and follow 'more cool links' to IH Farmall as a start

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sgtbull

12-02-2006 15:27:24




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 Re: purists in reply to Roger Mills, 12-02-2006 09:05:09  
I'm all for being as accurate as possible, but, the nuances of the EXACT color are pretty easily lost to time and even the folks who bought or used these old tractors new probably don't have a photographic memory with a chromatograph function.... long and the short, get as close as possible, within reason, and then enjoy the silly thing... don't fret over the little things that in the long run, won't really matter. I used to restore and "store"....now I restore and "use".....and have MUCH more fun. They're gonna get a scratch or two, gonna leak a little gas on the paint, gonna get dusty, gonna toss a little oil from the crank, but hey, in a few yrs, if it really needs it, I can have the fun of restoring it again, without all the BIG expenses I had the first time like engine rebuilds, bearing replacements and parts searches....'cause there ain't no way I'm ever gonna wear any of my tractors out using them as infrequently as I do now. I've got 4 kids ages 8 to 11. If all they could do was "LOOK" at the tractors and were never allowed to "DRIVE" them, have I really served any purpose in restoring them? Isn't restoring things like these as much about saving the EXPERIENCE of driving one as the knowledge of what they looked like? I know there will be scratches, and dings, and all the things that go with operating a restored tractor, but like I said, there are more important things... like the grin on my son's (and daughter's) faces when they drive one by themselves around the field. They couldn't care less if its the EXACT red or green.

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55 50

12-02-2006 16:48:16




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 Re: purists in reply to sgtbull, 12-02-2006 15:27:24  
My thoughts too and very well said. But in my case it's grandchildren who enjoy the driving.



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Roger Mills

12-02-2006 09:26:25




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 Re: purists in reply to Roger Mills, 12-02-2006 09:05:09  
The one I saw is new and on a Kodak grey scale reference chart. They have a whole section devoted to the subject.



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CNKS

12-02-2006 09:39:23




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 Re: purists in reply to Roger Mills, 12-02-2006 09:26:25  
I am not a photographer, so I can be corrected by someone who is, but IMO someone trying to match the exact color, which itself varied from batch to batch during production, would have to reproduce it from an unfaded original, or an old enhanced copy (I would question the enhancement as to accuracy). You can't get an accurate color off of a computer screen. My point is that the old colors simply do not exist anymore, unless someone had those chips in cold storage for the last 60 years.

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Roger Mills

12-02-2006 10:50:19




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 Re: purists in reply to CNKS, 12-02-2006 09:39:23  
I agree with you completely. It would be impossible to duplicate a color from a chip that has been exposed to light for very long at all. I have seen pix of every shade of red from brite pink to deep maroon where people said it was restored. I have also seen posts on many sides of the point-purists vs parade-vs show-vs rusty to nice work tractor. I'm not trying to start any controversy, just new to Red Power and passing along what I find or what might help someone. I have an unstyled JD A painted from the original code that some call the wrong green, I also have a hand crank Cat C-4 gas crawler that some say is the wrong yellow, it too is from the original code. Both are completely rebuilt to original and in pristine condition, but, when I take them to a show I put kids on them so dads can take pix and I drive them to and from their space and no ropes. Each has an original implement to work, the JD has a belt drive belly mower and the Cat has a blade and ripper. I intend to do the same with the FA and IA, hay mower or 2 way plow for the FA and snow blade for the IA. In one sense I am a purist in that I want them to be right but I don't need them to be behind ropes and never run. Unfortunately, I now live in Utah and there aren't any shows and not many parades to go to, maybe I can get some going.

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CNKS

12-02-2006 12:44:18




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 Re: purists in reply to Roger Mills, 12-02-2006 10:50:19  
I'm merely answering to the "correct" color asked often on this forum. The original IH red (not the varnish type red that was on some of the old tractor's wheels, etc) started in Nov 1936, I believe and was changed in 1949, 1958, and 1961, plus another change or two in the 80's I think. Every paint company, including Valspar that currently supplies IH 2150 for CaseIH, has their own versions of one or more of these colors -- they all differ to some degree, even within a single "official" IH color code, not to mention the old alkyd enamels produced by BPS/Tractor Supply, and Van Sickle, etc. Thus all the different opinions as to what the correct color is, along with all the shades of red you have noticed.

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Roger Mills

12-02-2006 13:24:26




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 Re: purists in reply to CNKS, 12-02-2006 12:44:18  
Thanks CNKS, thats a post I can relate to. The '44 FA I bought at auction was painted with the new "International Red" and had rust inhibitor in it. It looks right from what I can tell but its like they dipped the tractor in a vat of paint. The IA appears at this point to be a '47 #220,xxx. Can't read last three digits yet for sure, I think a 6xx tho and I know there are two more digits just not what. It appears to have been an orage color so thats where the interest comes from. I think it may have been for a city or county snow removal division. The orange is still visible under the tank and on the tank support rails. I scraped some down to the metal and it is the bottom color. Any help with this???

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Farmallgray

12-03-2006 06:08:28




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 Re: purists in reply to Roger Mills, 12-02-2006 13:24:26  
According to Guy Fay's book, on the late war and early post war tractors they were having trouble getting red pigment, so they added more yellow pigment making the color appear orange. That might explain why you see orange on a '47. You may want to get this book if you don't already have it.



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CNKS

12-02-2006 18:33:38




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 Re: purists in reply to Roger Mills, 12-02-2006 13:24:26  
There is no official industrial color, although most that were not special ordered were likely yellow, some were red. There is probably a code for the yellow but I don't know what it is--I believe it has been mentioned on this forum in the past, perhaps someone will answer. I really doubt if you can find the orange code, unless you know it's origin and the agency still uses the same color, not likely. So, the orange was probably ordered that way by the buyer. Sometimes the city/county/state/fed bought them, then repainted them in their own shop, if so you may find another color under that orange. Kansas and other state highway depts do use an orange color.

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CNKS

12-02-2006 09:17:54




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 Re: purists in reply to Roger Mills, 12-02-2006 09:05:09  
I have seen the paint chips, they are old and faded, probably not much good for getting an accurate color. I imagine many things changed as to how the letter series tractors were assembled and painted between 1939 and the mid-fifties. Pictures such as those are interesting though.



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