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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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super a engine sleeves

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werowance

11-18-2006 12:54:48




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ok, i bought an engine kit from here, i revieved tisco kit, and heres my question. the sleves fit good on top but are about 1/4 inch smaller where the oring at the bottom is, its going to leak like crazy into the oil, ive always been told that my tractor is a '46 model, its a super a, i got kit number bekh1150. on the sleeve box it says, sleeve p/n: tp-ge52 sat150. can anyone tell me whats up, or if this is the wrong kit. my original sleeves even after cleaning up with wire brush, are realy tight, these will drop into place with little to no force.

and if they are the worng ones, do you think ytmag will swap them?

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El Toro

11-18-2006 17:00:10




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 Re: super a engine sleeves in reply to werowance, 11-18-2006 12:54:48  
If your new pistons are 3.125" in diameter the sleeves should measure 3.312" in diameter where they meet the seals. You may have the wrong seals. Measure your old sleeves and compare that to your new sleeves at the base. Hal



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werowance

11-18-2006 16:31:50




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 Re: super a engine sleeves in reply to werowance, 11-18-2006 12:54:48  
354898r1 is my number, so does this mean that i need the other kit? dang,

guess i need to be calling them monday, but anyone think ill have trouble exchanging them? considering i have opened the o ring packs, and also put the rings on the pistons? just looking for some reasurance, im feeling kinda sick right now about what a huge mistake ive made.



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gene bender

11-18-2006 15:42:51




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 Re: super a engine sleeves in reply to werowance, 11-18-2006 12:54:48  
What is the part# on the block. You need to measure the dia where the sleeve fits the o-ring. They sure should get the correct ones for you.



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Keith-OR

11-18-2006 13:16:01




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 Re: super a engine sleeves in reply to werowance, 11-18-2006 12:54:48  
For some reason my memory tells me that 1947 was the first year for the SA. Maybe some of the IH experts will wade in here and clarify this. HTH

Keith & Smith



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werowance

11-18-2006 14:13:35




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 Re: super a engine sleeves in reply to Keith-OR, 11-18-2006 13:16:01  
ok, so year is wrong, i wish i had the serial number, any way, the reason i mentioned the year is because the kits list 2 different ones, one for a late serial number and one for a early serial number, i always thought the late serial number was for the super a that had a water pump? any way, anyone know about the differences in the piston sleeves? and the part numbers i listed?



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Stan(VA).

11-18-2006 15:16:45




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 Re: super a engine sleeves in reply to werowance, 11-18-2006 14:13:35  
In a nutshell you need the kit for the late Super A. You can find this in the archives several times, but your old sleeves probably have the 3-7/16" OD at the Oring seal, and the new ones you got will have the 3-5/16" OD of the earlier motors. If you look just behind the oil filter on the block you should see a 354898R casting number. If you don't put a water pump on it make sure you still get the early head gasket with the larger water jacket openings.
Stan(VA).

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Hugh MacKay

11-18-2006 15:09:39




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 Re: super a engine sleeves in reply to werowance, 11-18-2006 14:13:35  
werowance: The suggestion banjo gave you should work, go to the engine serial number. There are exceptions there though, someone may have bored the engine for a larger sleeve.

If these are factory without having been bored, the A and Super A up until serial number 310000 should all be the same. After serial number 310000 the Super A used the C-123 block with thicker sleeves, thus still giving 113 cubic inches. At serial number 356001, Super A became Super A1 and sleeves were changed to give 123 cubic inches and at that point the water pump was added.

Bear in mind these are tractor serial numbers I'm giving you. In 1947 tractor and engine serial numbers would have been very close, maybe even the same. By 1953 engine serial numbers would have been about 2000 higher than tractor serial numbers. Then you have the possible boring someone may have done to block, some time in the engines history. What you have can be matched, but you may have to approach supplier with actual sleeve measurments of old sleeves. Your not the first person to encounter this.

Actually that Super A block after serial number 310000 will take sleeve kit from C-135 engine. The 100, 130 and 140 will not unless they are bored, even though they were a C-123 engine, they used a smaller bore block with thinner sleeves.

When all is said and done, if your rebuilding a C-113 or C-123 engine, take it apart before you order. Unless you know the history of the tractor since new, you have no idea what is in there. I suspect YT will be very receptive to exchange, they are probably going to want you to pay shipping both ways. As I said earlier, you not the first person this has happened to.

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Stan(VA).

11-18-2006 15:28:47




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 Re: super a engine sleeves in reply to Hugh MacKay, 11-18-2006 15:09:39  
>Actually that Super A block after serial number
>310000 will take sleeve kit from C-135 engine.
>The 100, 130 and 140 will not unless they are
>bored, even though they were a C-123 engine, they
>used a smaller bore block with thinner sleeves.

Hugh,
a couple years ago we were speculating about the C135 sleeves but I was wrong on that. The C135's and C123's are very different animals. The 130/140 do go back to the smaller sleeve OD, but not the 100. It still has the 354898R block.
Stan(VA).

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Hugh MacKay

11-18-2006 16:19:24




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 Re: super a engine sleeves in reply to Stan(VA)., 11-18-2006 15:28:47  
Your calling it Stan, I knew I wouldn't have it all correct. However I would point out even though SA and 100 have 354898, SA is R1 and 100 is R3. Most importantly, if your about to rebuild a C-113 or C123, you best take it apart to be sure exactly what is in there.



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Stan(VA).

11-18-2006 21:01:43




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 Re: super a engine sleeves in reply to Hugh MacKay, 11-18-2006 16:19:24  
I certainly agree with your last statement, made it myself more times on here that I can keep track of ;)

I usually do leave off the Rev level on casting numbers because I have been told that R level changes within the same casting number did not effect fitment of any parts (and my experience goes along with it so far).

ie: 354898R1 to R2 would be a change such as beefed up internal webbing that would not effect the required sleeves, camshaft, lifters, crankshaft, oil pump, pan, front cover, seal retainers, etc to build out that block.

Versus a change like 251069R to 354898R which reflected a change in the block that did require new sleeves. Similarly 6342D (old A/B) to 251069R kept the same sleeve requirements but was modified for a hydraulic pump. 354898R to 366204R went back to the smaller sleeve OD. 366204R to 367825R kept the same sleeve but changed the front of the block casting for the new water pump on the x40 series.

My experience has been if you are looking at two parts with only a different R level, they are interchangeable.
Stan(VA).

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banjo

11-18-2006 14:25:17




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 Re: super a engine sleeves in reply to werowance, 11-18-2006 14:13:35  
Look directly above the mag or governor there is a flat spot on the engine block. scrape the crud off and look at the number, look it up and see what year it is.



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