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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Head gasket not sealing, kinda long

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Superdave57

11-14-2006 18:19:29




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Have a 350U overhauled motor with new sleeves and pistons. Started it up a few weeks ago and ran fine, except while it was running noticed a little anti-freeze coming out around one of the head studs. It did quit after ten minutes or so. Well the water jacket had some leaks also and decided to fix that, cleaned off and resealed it, then noticed water in the oil. I did not retorque the head after it was hot, maybe I should have, but anyway, pulled the head, checked the height of sleeves above the deck surface. One was .007 all the others .005-.006. The spec is .002-.006. Pulled the one sleeve, took .002 off the inside of the head and reinstalled. New head gasket, had the head surfaced, put the water back in, left the oil pan off and sure enough there was anti-freeze dripping out of the bottom of the sleeves. Took the head off again, cleaned and sprayed with copper gasket sealant and installed again. Still leaks, but not as bad.

Could it be the sleeves are too high yet, even though they meet spec? I am tempted to pull all the sleeves and make them to be .002 above the deck and put the head back on.

I have made sure the head stud threads have sealant on them also. I even drained the water out of the radiator, left the block drain in and it didn"t leak. Makes me think it is coming from an area from the gasket up?

Of all the things I thought could go wrong overhauling a tractor motor, sealing the head was not even on the list.

Sorry for the long post, but would appreciate any input. Thank you.

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Brownie 45

11-16-2006 17:06:02




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 Re: Head gasket not sealing, kinda long in reply to Superdave57, 11-14-2006 18:19:29  
Sorry JIm. Minor mental lapse.



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mhmalcolm

11-16-2006 10:56:02




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 Re: Head gasket not sealing, kinda long in reply to Superdave57, 11-14-2006 18:19:29  
My guess would be a cracked head in the combustion chamber area, most likely around the valve seat area. This happened with my Dad's 400 several years ago. Had the engine overhauled and at the first oil change there was antifreeze at the engine oil drain plug. I pulled off the head and sure enough, you could just barely see a crack starting at #4 exhaust valve seat. There had never been any antifreeze in the oil before the overhaul. I figured the crack was probably starting before the engine was overhauled, and the cleaning and valve seat grinding process probably helped open it up. I hadn't done the overhaul because I was in college at the time. I got a re-built head at Central Tractor (this was in 1983)and the engine is still running with no problems.

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Superdave57

11-15-2006 17:27:10




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 Re: Head gasket not sealing, kinda long in reply to Superdave57, 11-14-2006 18:19:29  
Thanks for the replies. When I pulled the old sleeves out, two years ago they block was fine, there had been no leaks on them. Try as I might, I try to give all circumstances when I post, but I should have added that I can see the anti-freeze on the piston side of the sleeves, which makes me think it is the head/gasket/sleeve seal.



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Janicholson

11-15-2006 18:36:47




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 Re: Head gasket not sealing, kinda long in reply to Superdave57, 11-15-2006 17:27:10  
Sdave, Sorry for my insistent shure thing attitude on the leak. If the water is in the combustion chamber, and thus down between the piston and block, it is likely a leaky head. The rim of the sleeves will almost shurely seal against the head (as you point out they are tall) the only leakable location is in the head structure. I would have it pressure checked, or magnafluxed for cracks. JimN

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Brownie 45

11-15-2006 04:13:45




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 Re: Head gasket not sealing, kinda long in reply to Superdave57, 11-14-2006 18:19:29  
How are the o-rings which seal the sleeve and the block? These fit in a square groove in the block in each sleeve hole toward the lower end of where each sleeve rests. If these aren't in good shape, they could be causing your problem. An aside-- hate to say it, but we use JD general purpose gasket dressing #TY15934 on all our head gaskets. This is made by Locktite. Sorry for the foul language.



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Janicholson

11-15-2006 06:24:42




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 Re: Head gasket not sealing, kinda long in reply to Brownie 45 , 11-15-2006 04:13:45  
Dear Brownie, a 350 has a dry sleeve engine. Same series as an H. They should have no way to get H2O into the pan past the sleeves. JimN



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Janicholson

11-14-2006 18:44:12




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 Re: Head gasket not sealing, kinda long in reply to Superdave57, 11-14-2006 18:19:29  
Though I don't want to bear bad tidings, I think there may be cracks in the cylinder castings (block) that surround the sleeves. These cracks may be all but invisible, but they would let water in between the sleeve and the block, leaking into the pan. It could also be pinholes or corrosion pits allowing coolant where it should not be. If you are making this fine tractor (I own one)good again, I would pull the sleeves and magniflux the bores. (it is possible to fill the bare block with H2O with dye in it with the head off and sleeves out to use gravity to check for leaks in the casting, but crack detection is preferable. To get H2o comming out of the sleeves in the pan requires the H2O to be where it should never be. The metal to metal seal of the ring on the top of the sleeve stops H2O at that point. If the sleeves are easy to install, and do not require freezing and heating of the block there may be other issues. There are A, B, C, and D bores in blocks sleeves at the factory are/were select fit to these sizes. Standard overhaul kits do not distinguish between them. A and B holes will be OK I think, C and D holes will be loose. The info is stamped next to the hole on the deck of the block. Good luck, and may it be none of the above. JimN

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