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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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How much weight

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banjo

10-31-2006 18:43:13




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Thanks to some of the guys on this site i finally have my 3 point built for my super a. How much can i expect to lift without damage and no weights on the front?




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gene bender

11-01-2006 04:15:05




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 Re: How much weight in reply to banjo, 10-31-2006 18:43:13  
It wont lift any more than the psi of the pump times the dia of the cycl. The rear wts on the tractor have nothing to do with lifting cap of the three pt.



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banjo

11-01-2006 07:19:25




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 Re: How much weight in reply to gene bender, 11-01-2006 04:15:05  
Hey gene, i did not say anything about weights on the rear and lifting. I was talking about no weight on the front of the tractor and lifting the wheels off the ground with too much weight on the 3 point.

Would you happen to know the psi of the pump and diameter of a stock 48 super a cylinder?



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gene bender

11-01-2006 13:21:41




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 Re: How much weight in reply to banjo, 11-01-2006 07:19:25  
The pressure from the pump should read from 1000+ or more when rockshaft is moving according to the I@T manual times the dia of the cycl for total lift pressure so figure the area of the piston in sqinx1000



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gene bender

11-01-2006 10:57:53




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 Re: How much weight in reply to banjo, 11-01-2006 07:19:25  
Dont know the dia of the cycl you are using and the best way to know your pump dia would be to get or borrow a hy guage then you could figure amount of force. From what you talk about lifting i would think you should be ok. A long implement stretching back say 5ft or so mite cause front to get light. The A would be easy to add wts on as the square holes in the steering sector make it easy for a bracket to be built as a sack of ready mix cement comes in different sizes just be careful driving so as not to break the steering housing. Playing around you should come up with a workable system. Now with the wt hanging in front dont get bulldozer ideas remember it is a small tractor and has unlimited duties within reason. I lif some pretty big things with my B and its loader having wts on the rear. Just be carefull. An A was used for many years back loading coal at the local lumber yd.

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banjo

11-01-2006 14:27:02




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 Re: How much weight in reply to gene bender, 11-01-2006 10:57:53  
Well i hooked the spring tooth up and the 3 point worked great. I even ran threw the garden a few times to see how it pulled. No problem with pulling just had to watch how deep it went. Lost traction before it bogged down. I think it will be just fine. Thanks.



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Cedric

11-01-2006 00:58:50




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 Re: How much weight in reply to banjo, 10-31-2006 18:43:13  
Banjo, The Serviceman"s Handbook for the Touch Control has the following paragraph :
"Two rear wheel weights, as furnished for the Farmall Super A or Farmall Cub tractor, weigh approximately 300 pounds, a sufficient weight for test purposes. However, do not overlook the fact that this test weight of 300 pounds, as applied to the rear implement rockshaft, is equal to a load of 600 pounds at the Touch-Control rockshaft - which is about one-third of the total permissible load for the Farmall Super-A and Farmall Super-C and one- half of the total permissible load for the Farmall Cub." (The last clause is in italics).
I assume from the above that you could hang a maximum of 900 pounds from the implement rockshaft.
Perhaps JimN could clarify the above. Sid.

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Janicholson

10-31-2006 19:01:08




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 Re: How much weight in reply to banjo, 10-31-2006 18:43:13  
Three things will determine the answer. What is the leverage ratio of the rock shaft at the hydraulic system to the rock shaft at the rear? What is the ratio of the lift arms between mounting and lift point and ball and (second class lever I think). Thereason these are important is that the lift may be powerful enough to lift the front if the above ratios are in favor of force, not distance. And not powerful enough to lift a lazy farm cat if they are in favor of distance. If for every inch of travel of the front rock shaft, the hitch balls go up one inch, I would believe it will lift about 450-500# (a guess). JimN

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banjo

10-31-2006 19:21:20




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 Re: How much weight in reply to Janicholson, 10-31-2006 19:01:08  
Wheeew, my brain hurts after trying to cifer all that. I get what your talking about and hope i have it set up right. Just have a couple of impliments that i would even think about trying.

I would be useing them on pretty level ground. Have a 6 row zip seeder and a springtooth tiller that is pretty light. Was hopeing it would lift my sickle mower but it is over 600#. Just hate it when i have to unhook from 1 tractor just to move something else out of the way.

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Janicholson

10-31-2006 19:41:07




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 Re: How much weight in reply to banjo, 10-31-2006 19:21:20  
One way to change things is to put several holes in the lift arms, each farther back toward the implement end. if it won't lift at the location it is assembled now, move the lift points farther back. I would go 2" at a time. Each location will lessen the total lift distance, and increase the lift ability. Good luck, JimN



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Hugh MacKay

11-01-2006 03:58:19




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 Re: How much weight in reply to Janicholson, 10-31-2006 19:41:07  
Jim: you are very correct on the placement of the holes, they make a huge difference on these little tractors. Not sure I agree with the formula your using on the earlier post, re: movement in inches of front rockshaft, being equal to hitch lift point in inches, giving you 400 to 500 lbs lift. I think the ratio would be closer to 1 to 3 lifting 500 lbs. The front rockshaft stroke on these is about 8" at end of rockshaft. The 3 point kit I built for my 140 has about a 20" lift range at the lower link hitch point. I designed this hitch so I can switch from 1 point fast hitch to 3 point hitch in 5 min, without use of wrenches. All I do is pull pins from fast hitch pull bar, drop it, install my 3 point links, and I'm going.

I am going one step further with this hitch than just having a lift on back of tractor, which many aftermarket 3 points clearly are. I have been plowing with my 3 point hitch. I have two plows, both IH, both 2x12, same plow except one is 1 point and the other is 3 point. We are plowing heavy clay and for some reason we haven't quite mastered one little issue. We can't get the 3 point plow to pull quite as easy as the 1 point. We've made some minor modifications, however it's been so wet in the past two weeks we haven't had a testing day. I have it figured, if I can master plowing with this hitch, then it will be as close to perfect, as I'm probably going to achive.

My hitch is lifting well in excess of 500 lbs., in fact the 3 point will lift more on same tractor than the 1 point fast hitch. We have been disking with this hitch using an MF-25, 3 point hitch disk. This disk is 24 blade with 18" blades. If we set gang angles as sharp as they will go it will stop 140 in it's tracks. I have however disked axle deep and pulled it ok. I run out of traction long before I run out of power. This disk weighs in excess of 800 lbs, just a shade too much weight for 140 hydraulics, however the 140 will put 12" between disk and ground. I think ideal for one of these offsets would be 20 blade disk with 16" blades. Those extra 4 blades, plus 2" extra diameter on every blade add a lot of weight.

On the hitching end, and tractor ability to pull, I'm not quite satisfied. The 140 clearly pulls easier with it's own factory 1 point fast hitch plow and disk. I am not using hitch stabilizer chains, 3 point lower links are hooked to fast hitch pull bail, making them 22" apart at tractor and about 28" at implement, it should allow steering corrections with implement in ground, however when I start to turn either plowing or disking, my inside wheel on turn looses traction. If I try the same with 1 point it works.

What I need now is a ratio change of shop days to field days. I don't want to change as much, as I have time for, I think I'm quite close to having this work. Plain and simple, I need some fine weather. If it doesn't come soon, I may have to get one of these guys down south to rent me testing ground for the winter.

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Janicholson

11-01-2006 06:33:40




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 Re: How much weight in reply to Hugh MacKay, 11-01-2006 03:58:19  
My thinking was only to try to describe that if the unknown total ratio of front rocker to the point on the lift arms that are at the implement end had a ratio of 1:1 the lift power would be about the same as the lift power of the hydraulic system as measured at the front rocker. JimN



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