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RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited

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D Slater

10-27-2006 16:32:29

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From original discussion on the 22 that steven AZ said that W9 gas and diesels turned the Mag or ditributor different directions. I asked him the question, don't they turn same dirrection on the 9 tractors. After several saying I was wrong I admitted that I didn't know enough about those tractors to argue for sure one way or other. But from the size of blocks in tractor I thought there must be a idler gear in there somewhere simaler to gas start diesels, and if so that would make both the gas and diesel in W9 600 650 turn hydraulic pump and mag or distributor the same dirrection. Then in a later post Randy Hall started by saying I was correct, RR MECH posted and I quote. Since I have been a IH mechanic for over 40 years I can assure you all that all of the gas starting diesel motors that IH built have hydraulic pump and distributor turning counter clockwise and all the gas motors turned clockwise and thats a fact.End of quote. Well I have ben gathering proof and double checking since the 22, Wardner and RR MECH and you and your 40 years are dead wrong. W9 600 and 650 gasoline engines turn pump and distributor the same dirrection as gas start diesel engines and I will start furnishing proof if you still disagree.

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Tim Shaw

10-28-2006 10:52:53

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to D Slater, 10-27-2006 16:32:29

Dave,

You are right. We found out the hard way when we changed a T9 crawler from mag to dist. several years ago.

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RR Mech

10-27-2006 21:05:24

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to D Slater, 10-27-2006 16:32:29

I'm sorry to wave red flags in someones face but was sure I was right. Thats what 40 years of mechanicing does to ones brain. The I and T book I looked in under dist specs showed clockwise for the gas 600 I thought. But will check again when I get to the shop. I bet with this fine forum and all the inteligent people on it, it for sure will be figured out correctly.

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D Slater

10-28-2006 11:02:08

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to RR Mech, 10-27-2006 21:05:24

Know what you mean by remembering,gets harder for me all the time. Some things I should stay out of on here but get started and to hard headed to let it drop. Good day.

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RR Mech

10-28-2006 20:53:14

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to D Slater, 10-28-2006 11:02:08

To D SLATER I'm sure sorry to post wrong info on here or cause confusion.I did go back and look at the info in the I & T book for 600-650 internationals which is IH-11 page 28 and it states that gas & LP dist. is clockwise. But it is also wrong as was I!! Glad theres some one arround to straighten me out when i am wrong. Sure enjoy reading these forums and just cant help jumping in once in a while. SEE YA

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Ron in Nebr

10-27-2006 18:56:43

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to D Slater, 10-27-2006 16:32:29

Learn somthin' new every day...especially on this great website! Add me to the list of people who thought they turned opposite directions but am now "educated" on one more aspect of these big ol' brutes! Thanks!

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D Slater

10-27-2006 20:03:54

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to Ron in Nebr, 10-27-2006 18:56:43

Ron, I have ben learning also. after discussion started one thing I looked at was IT manual CNKS mentioned and along with rotation listings it gave line up for timing gears with a idler gear driving cam gear from crank gear, hoped for a picture showing gears but no luck.Sometimes things are not always listed correct in books so I was not going to make a flat out claim unless I could back up. In pictures of these tractors looked at with hydraulic pumps they showed suction and discharge same way for gas and diesel but I waited until I had chance to look at parts book today before responding. One confussing thing is aftermarket companies are listing live hydraulic pumps for SM MTA 400 450 SW9 gas as same pump. What I learned today on this site is there also listing M&W pumps for M to W9 same pump. Didn't know they were handling new M&W pumps.Back to subject parts book shows timing gears with idler. In other words crank drives idler, idler drives cam, cam drives dist. or pump drive like the gas start diesels,gears not the same but same # in between, also looking in 600 650 parts book because a lot of them had live hydraulic pump,same pump is shown for gas and diesel and its same pump # as 450D ETC. So aftermarket must be making a mistake on listings.

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Wardner

10-27-2006 20:32:31

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to D Slater, 10-27-2006 20:03:54

Thanks for the heads-up. However, the supplier's error would have little impact as there were very few gas 600-650 sold. The gas 600 is supposed to be very rare. Perhaps the situation is different with the Super W-9. I dunno.

The rarity of these tractors is probably the reason the catalog errors exist. Nobody has ordered a pump for a late gas 9 series.

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CNKS

10-27-2006 17:26:07

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to D Slater, 10-27-2006 16:32:29

I use an IT manual only as a supplement to the IH factory manuals, and know nothing about the 9 series, but on page 49 of the IH-8 manual, all letter and standard gas have C for distributer rotation. All diesels AND the gas 9 series have CC rotation, so, yup, you are correct.

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Steven@AZ

10-27-2006 17:12:37

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to D Slater, 10-27-2006 16:32:29

Yeah, I bet that gas W-9 turns backwards too... that block set up is a different animal from the smaller IH tractors.

I might could look at it in a week and half when I get back out to the farm... if I can find the tractor in the back of the shed!

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Wardner

10-27-2006 16:52:18

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to D Slater, 10-27-2006 16:32:29

Holy cow, D Slater. Will I have to take a sledge hammer to my front gear cover to look at the gear train? Just kidding. I suppose if it had service meter I could look in there. Maybe I should start looking at my W-9, WD-9 parts book,

As for my I-9 distributor cap and firing order, my cap is gone and so are the plug wires. Not a big deal for me. I bought the monster for its heavy duty loader.

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D Slater

10-27-2006 17:16:28

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to Wardner, 10-27-2006 16:52:18

Wardner no hard feelings its nice to have someone to argue with now and then. The way RR MECH worded his repley kind of waved a red flag in my face. I do respect him for putting in 40 years mechanican though.

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Wardner

10-27-2006 20:16:21

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Re: RR MECH, Wardner, W 9 revisited in reply to D Slater, 10-27-2006 17:16:28

My hat is off to you, D. Slater. It is odd that a company that tended towards design consistancy among various sizes of product would deviate on the timing gears of the gas 335-350 motor.

OK, what else is weird about that engine?

Below are the line items from parts book TC-32-A. It covers W-9, WD-9, WR-9, and WDR-9.

In the Carbureted Engine section:

53 176 DA /MAGNETO, Complete (Counterwise) 1

In the Diesel Engine section:

49 094 D /MAGNETO, Complete (Counterwise) 1

Both mags are H-4's

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