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Okay to Plow low side of TA?

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Tom Harvey

10-21-2006 07:45:01




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I am doing alot of plowing with my 656 Diesel I normally plow in 2nd high. I am using a 18" two bottom sanderum auto reset plow. The land hasn't been plowed in 30 years I have about 200 acres to plow some of it is real hilly and I have had to down shift to keep the tractor from overheating sometimes just it has the power but the temp gauge will creep up so I down shift and a few minutes it running back down where it should. Does it hurt say to plow in 3rd low which according to the tach would be a little slower than 2nd high but faster than 2nd low.

Tom in Maine

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wolfman

10-22-2006 17:29:38




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Tom Harvey, 10-21-2006 07:45:01  
IH definitely made the first successful power shift (TA) in say 1954. I remember reading an article in the Wall Street Journal in the late 60's where this company in North Carolina signed a contract with Deere to supply them with their Power Shift Tran units. The article went on to say that this company already had contracts with Ford, Oliver, Moline, etc. Wish I had bought at least 100 shares! Does anyone out there know the name of this NC company?

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davpal

10-22-2006 12:04:17




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Tom Harvey, 10-21-2006 07:45:01  
Trade the 656 in on a farmall M with no T/A in it and go plow all day for the next 30 years with it. Just put on some new tires on the back about every ten years and keep the oil changed and the radiator full of clean antifreeze. No more T/A, so no more T/A problems period.



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sd pete

10-22-2006 06:20:34




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Tom Harvey, 10-21-2006 07:45:01  
You can plow in low 4th low 3rd high 3rd or whatever gear you can pull it in. Wont hurt the ta at all. I have operated these tractors since the mid 50's. And had everything from a 300 400 3 560's 806 856 1086



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dwag

10-21-2006 18:24:58




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Tom Harvey, 10-21-2006 07:45:01  
On the mechanical TA"s used on the 656"s, when in TA, a throwout brg is constantly running against press plate fingers releasing the direct drive clutch disc. For that reason I"d use TA mode for short intervals only, tough spots, turning at end rows, etc.. Just my opinion.



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Hugh MacKay

10-21-2006 19:22:11




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to dwag, 10-21-2006 18:24:58  
You should read this entire thread.



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dwag

10-22-2006 11:26:25




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-21-2006 19:22:11  
On a 656 3rd low is 3rd gear in TA. You should read my entire thread. Agree with you on plugged radiator, a lot of them are getting re-cored due to age of tractors being used today. Back in late 60"s and 70"s a 15 yr old tractor was OLD. Have a nice day.



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Nebraska Cowman

10-21-2006 15:46:19




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Tom Harvey, 10-21-2006 07:45:01  
It's not pulling that ruins TAs, it's Pushing. Never shift into TA on a down-grade and it will last forever.



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Don L C

10-21-2006 10:38:26




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Tom Harvey, 10-21-2006 07:45:01  
Using the TA as a high and low for your gear set is just what does them in..... .....
The TA is to be used to get you through a hard spot and then shift it back to hi..... ..
Also when shifting a TA dont drag the shift slowly.....snap shift it remember your not using the clutch.....



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Hugh MacKay

10-21-2006 11:01:57




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Don L C, 10-21-2006 10:38:26  
Don: Other than advising him to shift quickly, the rest is a bunch of bunk. read what I said to Bill.



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Don L C

10-21-2006 17:03:27




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-21-2006 11:01:57  
Hugh---My information came from the cut away display at this years Big Red Roundup in Ohio....I was told by the people at the display that the two men I was talking to was in the know on TAs....
Sorry to have passed on bad info, I was miss informed I am now still looking for there intended use..... Don



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Hugh MacKay

10-21-2006 19:19:27




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Don L C, 10-21-2006 17:03:27  
Don: Down through the years TA has been given a bad rap, and most of that was the fault of IH. IH should have put alot more development dollars into it much sooner than they did and eliminated the freewheeling on the low side. If you look up the thread at what Nebraska Cowman has said, he covered it all.

Some of the first operators tended to get wrapped up in what they were doing, forget they were in low range, start down a hill, the tractor starts to free wheel, and bingo they shift into high, but not before tractor was rolling faster than the particular gear in high. My dad was famous for this, we never seemed get him to remember the free wheeling, and that 300 was the one we had to rebuild prematurely. We trained many young lads after that, and it never seemed to be near as much problem.

It has always been very important to keep TA adjusted properly and to shift it quickly. I really can say nothing but good about TA, we used and used it a lot. If it suited we worked it on the low side all day. Some will say never shift it on a hard pull, they could have fooled me, and my 3 diesels were proof of that. I remember one night hooking 1066 out front of a disabled tractor trailer loaded with grain. The drive shaft was broken and it was beginning to rain. that tractor trailer had to come out of there or it may have been there for days. I started out in 4th low, low on TA, at point tractor stopped lugging hard I could feel it start to spin, I put TA into high to keep tractor lugging hard, soon as it would start to loose rpm's back to low. I did that about 6 times up that 1/2 mile grade, pulling 75,000# of dead weight.

Today, TA is getting another bad wrap, that being caused by folks doing back yard rebuilds. Yes, folks that are not qualified to decide what should be replaced. Most of them should just go for trade in on a professionally rebuilt unit.

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Bill in oh

10-21-2006 10:18:20




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA?Tom Harvey in reply to Tom Harvey, 10-21-2006 07:45:01  
If you are going to pull that tractor in 3rd low i would recommend leaving it there even through the easy pulling the TA on these tractor was great for shifting on light loads but not heavy loads.continuous up and down on these TA s make short life for them.Even on the large tractors we'll not use them under load. only for decrease ground speed not to get through tough spots.That kinda unusual for them tractors to run hot with that light load.Check the fan belt make sure it is not hard we have on the big tractors the belts get hard and the water pump-fan and Alt will pull harder than the belt can stand we put new belts on and they will cool down for awhile.

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Hugh MacKay

10-21-2006 10:57:39




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA?Tom Harvey in reply to Bill in oh, 10-21-2006 10:18:20  
Bill: Would you kindly explain to me how I managed to put 75,000 hours on 5 TA equiped Farmalls, shifted them 100 times per day, many times to keep tractor from dying and only ever rebuilt one TA under 10,000 hours.

Here is the tractor list 300, 504, 656 560 and 1066.



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Bill in oh

10-21-2006 19:39:52




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA?Hugh macKay in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-21-2006 10:57:39  
I have a neighbor that got blood from the turnip all so.I have 17 IH tractor here 7 of which have TA's I am not asame to tell anyone IH TA's!!!! JUNK.IF the damn things was any good ever company would be using them rather than power shift.



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Hugh MacKay

10-22-2006 02:30:37




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA?Hugh macKay in reply to Bill in oh, 10-21-2006 19:39:52  
Bill: How many of those 7 TA equiped Farmalls did you buy new and how many total hours are on them?

I'd like for you to explain to me, the real working difference between TA and Power Shift. I'm not aware how all of them work, but have had about 13,000 hours experience with a Deere 8 speed Power Shift, before it required rebuilding. Having lived in a farming community, I've heard just as many horror stories about power shifts as TA, and in both cases most of it has been operator error.

Most of the damage to either system has happened out in road gears rather than in the field. Any one who has driven trucks realize the problems associated with driveline shock. Tractors over 10 mph are really no different. One must match engine rpm's to the gear he's going to at these speeds. If that can't be acomplished, one best stop. These are not 1,500# dune buggies.

You can probably find two people to agree with you, for every person I find to agree with me. That will give you some idea just how many folks treated tractors like dune buggies, race cars , etc. There are probably 2 dozen guys on this forum that have experienced the same kind of performance from TA as I, and with several tractors each. It was a case of firing all cowboy operators, even if they were family.

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Cezary Zamoyski

01-27-2007 23:17:29




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 Cezary Zamoyski in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-22-2006 02:30:37  
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01-27-2007 23:17:29




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01-27-2007 23:17:28




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01-17-2007 22:28:02




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11-12-2006 19:07:16




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11-09-2006 04:49:53




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wolfman

10-22-2006 17:19:46




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA?Hugh macKay in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-22-2006 02:30:37  
Bought a 460 used in 1967. Used it hard-it plowed, worked the ground, ran the chopper, the picker, roaded the wagon loads of grain, silage,baled the hay. Torque was still good in 1991. Never used it when oil was cold & tried to never freewheel. Can't guess how many hours, but many thousand.



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Bill in oh

10-22-2006 07:28:26




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA?Hugh macKay in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-22-2006 02:30:37  
Hugh? I've heard just as many war stories on the power shift as the TA?.What are we useing today? If i remember i think i told the man to go with one range and stay there? YOU wanted to throw rocks? UP till 1985 my farther knew where ever farmall in this part of the county can from (the dealer) the day it sold what it sold for what was traded? if a trade? I think WHEN the neighbors SEE this they will verify? With the IH tractors AND no PARTS SALES KILLED him.

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Hugh MacKay

10-22-2006 22:56:22




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA?Hugh macKay in reply to Bill in oh, 10-22-2006 07:28:26  
Bill: All this crap you've come back with and you still haven't answered my initial basic question, that being, " If IH TA was such junk how did I ever manage to put 75,000 hours on 5 TA equiped Farmalls, yet only have to replace one TA in less than 10,000 hours?" You haven't even come close to giving an answer to that.

I can take you to a good many other folks who managaed to put in excess of 10,000 hours on TA before rebuild. All I want is your explaination as to how you think this happened, especially since you claim it's nothing but junk.

I will agree with you, IH management did do a lot blundering around looking like a chicken with it's head cut off. TA should have been developed to a point there was no free wheeling in within 3 years. IH flogged that damn fast hitch for 10 years, and while there is not much wrong with fast hitch it was dead in the water before the first one was sold. Dealers were loosing customers everyday, over free wheeling TA and no 3 point hitch. IH did have a 3 point hitch, they had been selling it on Farmall Ms across Europe and Austrailia since 1953.

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RAW in IA

10-21-2006 12:21:27




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA?Tom Harvey in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-21-2006 10:57:39  
I completely agree with you Hugh. If kept adjusted right and use right (not shifted slow) they will last a long time. And they don't care if used on low or high side.



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Hugh MacKay

10-21-2006 10:00:07




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Tom Harvey, 10-21-2006 07:45:01  
Tom: Plow in whichever side suits your situation.

My concern is you have a problem somewhere in the 656 cooling system. A 2x18 plow shouldn't warm that tractor up in any gear, roughly a 35 hp job. I hammered my 656D a good many 12 to 16 hour days on a 5x16 plow, and never worried about heating.

You've either got a faulty thermostat, bad water pump or a rad badly in need of a recore.



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RAW in IA

10-21-2006 09:48:04




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Tom Harvey, 10-21-2006 07:45:01  
Dad had a 350 with 3-16 mounted plow, and we plowed in lows side mostof the time. Eother 4th low or 3rd low. speeds and power seemed to work out better there. Ran for quite a few years and never hurt ta any.



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K-Mo

10-21-2006 08:15:58




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to Tom Harvey, 10-21-2006 07:45:01  
The TA is designed to be used just like you are doing. Find a gear you can plow in and use the TA for tough spots.
The TA was designed as a "shift-on-to-go". Before TA, when you came to a tough spot you would have to stop and shift to a lower gear. When you had passed the tough spot you had to stop again to shift up.
I don't have the personal experience, but I would think that monitoring your tach would tell you when to shift to TA. Perhaps someone with experience or an owner's manual would answer that question.
J.I. Case's answer was Case-O-Matic.

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Randy as in Randy-IA

10-22-2006 13:57:30




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 Re: Okay to Plow low side of TA? in reply to K-Mo, 10-21-2006 08:15:58  
Hi All , My un-informed two cents worth is that almost all colors had a system that did the same thing , they just called it something different . K-Mo's example was the case-o-matic , my examples are the oliver power booster and the three speed hydraul-shift . Ford had their version and I would guess that most other tractor manufacturers of that time period had someting also . They all broke if used incorrectly . My three speed freewheels in underdrive also so I don't use it on the road at least . I wouldn't have any issues with using a T/A in the field . I really like my over/under . I want to get a good 450 or a 400 with a T/A but I just can't afford one right now . Take care ...Randy

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