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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farmall M

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Loren P

08-17-2006 11:55:37




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I built a dirt moving wagon by mounting a hydraulic hoist truck bed onto a running gear. I connected up the big hydraulic cylinder on the hoist to my Farmall M, but I'm finding that I need more oil to run the hoist up all the way. I'm thinking that I could put a hydraulic coupler on the fill pipe of the Lift-All reservoir, then connect a hose to a secondary reservoir mounted off the frame of the tractor. I probably only need another gallon of oil.

Would the oil leak out of the pump if I did this, since the oil level would be above the fill pipe? I overfilled the pipe when I was testing it a few days ago, and I had a lot of oil on the floor under the tractor the next day, much more than what normally would leak from the seals. I'm not sure if it came up out of the vent in the fill cap, or if it ran out from somewhere else on the pump. The hydraulic hose was disconnected from the hoist, so there shouldn't have been any return pressure forcing the oil out. If I have something leaking that I can't see, I may try it on my H instead.

Other than the fluid capacity, the Lift-All does a nice job of lifting and holding the hoist, since the hoist cylinder is only single-acting. Has anyone added an extra reservoir to the Lift-All on an M or H? Any suggestions on a container to use for the reservoir?

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Michael Sheik

08-17-2006 12:31:02




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Loren P, 08-17-2006 11:55:37  
I may have missed something but why could you not use the hydraulic cylinder on truck hoist as the reservoir and plumb in 2 hyd. lines from the tractor. That way you would have power up AND power down. Not familiar with the "M" so I may be all wet as it may only have power up pump system. Just a Thought!



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Loren P

08-17-2006 12:41:12




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Michael Sheik, 08-17-2006 12:31:02  
The Liftall pump is only one-way. The hoist cylinder does have a built-in reservoir, and I have the pump from the truck that I could rig up the the PTO on the tractor, but using the Liftall is more convenient and safer. The weight of the truck bed is enough to lower it back down, although it lowers very slow because of the size of the vent in the reservoir cap.



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Michael Sheik

08-17-2006 12:47:56




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Loren P, 08-17-2006 12:41:12  
Be careful with that one-way setup. I build and sell a lot of GN trailers built from old trucks and the one-way cylinders are prone to going over center and flipping all the way up in the air. I even seen one that ripped the cylinder ram mount plum off the truck frame. You can also make it go down faster by installing a second hyd. line back to reservoir with a ball valve inline to control down speed and on/off. Done that a time or two. Not real pretty but it works.

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Loren P

08-17-2006 13:16:39




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Michael Sheik, 08-17-2006 12:47:56  
I suppose that not having oil in the cylinder reservoir would allow the ram to pull out on it's own after the load shifts past the pivot point, assuming the reservoir is the back side of the ram. I've seen this happen with the hoist on our 1 1/2 ton Chev, which uses the cylinder reservoir. When dumping a load of rock, the bed will flip up all the way after enough rock moves to the back. I'll be hauling mostly black dirt for landscaping around the house, so it shouldn't be much of a problem, since the dirt doesn't roll off very fast.

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Michael Sheik

08-17-2006 12:57:55




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Michael Sheik, 08-17-2006 12:47:56  
Oh Ya! Probably would have to drill out vent hole or install some other type.



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Andy Martin

08-17-2006 12:14:41




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Loren P, 08-17-2006 11:55:37  
I think you'd be happier with a reservoir plumbed into the drain instead. Mounted above I think it would have to overfill the Lift-All.

Mine get hot running the round baler and Haybine. I have been considering adding a flat reservoir on the right side of the tractor with the four-way valve return going into the reservoir instead of into the Lift-All fill line, hwere some of it blows out the vent on heavy usage.

With the oil going into the new reservoir and then into the Lift-All drain, it should help keep it a lot cooler. I realize you don't have the return problem.

I was going to weld mine out of 1/8 or 12 ga plate but you could use a piece of 4-inch pipe alongside mounted at teh right elevation.

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Loren P

08-17-2006 12:33:07




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Andy Martin, 08-17-2006 12:14:41  
That's a great idea! Running a hose from the drain to the extra reservoir should give me the extra oil I need, and the oil in the extra reservoir should run level to the Liftall level. As long as I keep the extra reservoir below the full line on the dipstick, I shouldn't lose fluid.

Any idea what the pipe thread size is on the drain?



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Nat 2

08-17-2006 13:59:01




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Loren P, 08-17-2006 12:33:07  
Oil wouldn't run out of the fill pipe if you capped it off with a non-vented cap...

Connect it to the drain, or to the fill pipe. The end result will be the same: Added capacity!



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Andy Martin

08-17-2006 14:37:36




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Nat 2, 08-17-2006 13:59:01  
Almost.

You have to have a vent somewhere. If you don't vent the Lift-All you will tend to fill it with fluid as the air works out if you are connected to the fill connection. When the level is above the control shaft I think you will get leakage.

If you are connected to teh drain connection the fluid would have no incentive to go into the Lift-All as the trapped air above the Lift-All level will keep it out.

BTW, I ruined a tractor running without a vented cap. I had been using it for some time with a pipe plug for a cap and borrowed a neighbor's cultipacker. 13 ft wide and real heavy. I hitched it up and pulled it to the shop to top off the hydraulic fluid. I over filled it.

Took it to the garden and tested it. When I dropped it there was a loud sound. I pushed in the clutch and everything seemd OK. Re-engaged the clutch and more noise. Looked again and oil everywhere.

Summation of damage:
Pressure in the Lift-All split the front of the case pushing it into the pressure plate. Broke all three ears off the pressure plate. The side load on the flywheel broke the crank in the rear main. It is waiting full disassembly and repair, for ten years or so.

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Loren P

08-18-2006 06:50:50




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Andy Martin, 08-17-2006 14:37:36  
I think all of the oil on the floor of my shop is because I overfilled the Lift-All above the control shaft (I filled it until it overflowed.) I'll set the extra reservoir at a height where the level of the oil is the same as the fill line on the dipstick, and put a vented cap on the extra tank as well to keep the levels equalized. I found a 4" dia. x 12" piece of steel pipe at work, so I'm going to machine two endcaps and weld them to the pipe, with 1/2" NPT couplers welded into holes drilled in the wall of the pipe (one up for filling/venting, and one down for connection to the Lift-All drain.) I'll then weld some studs to the side to bolt to the frame rail.

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Andy Martin

08-18-2006 07:32:29




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Loren P, 08-18-2006 06:50:50  
That sounds good.

Flat plate end caps should work good.

You might want a drain on the bottom and bring your connection to the Lift-All in the side so you have a place for sludge to collect.

Truck supply stores sell vented filtered caps for hydraulic reservoirs. You might want to buy the cap first and make the opening to fill match. A generous opening like 1-1/2 inch gives you the ability to look in and judge the level and makes filling much easier.

You might also want to put a connection up high for return in case you ever want to put a valve on for two-way hydraulics.

I would weld a pair of angles, leg out, for mounting so you use short bolts to mount and can replace the bolts without rewelding and can get to the heads.

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Allan In NE

08-17-2006 12:05:25




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 Re: adding an extra reservoir to Lift-All on Farma in reply to Loren P, 08-17-2006 11:55:37  
Yep,

In fact, years ago, IH used to sell an add-on 1-gallon resoviour. Just screwed into a 45 elbow at the fill.

Allan



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