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M Problems ( Kind of long)

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Wisconsin Cowma

07-28-2006 21:39:01




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Two days ago the starter locked up one the M. Drove it outside the shed and forgot I did not have a pin for the wagon so I shut it off. Anyway it did not what to start when I had found the pin. So I put it in 5th gear and rocked the tractor back and forth did not pop at all. So today when I had time to look at it more. The battery was died. So I put the charger one it for two hours. Then I hooked the battery up and the lights turned on. So I thought that takes care of that. Walked away fo 2 minutes and the battery was deid again. This is a 12 volt converted M. I think I am going to get the starter rebuilt or looked at. I know it is the starter locked up. Then how come my battery is deid like that? Anybody got some ideas on what to do? Thanks

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John T

07-29-2006 07:28:52




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 Re: M Problems ( Kind of long) in reply to Wisconsin Cowman , 07-28-2006 21:39:01  
Cowman, Im with "old" on a lot of this one. First of all like he pointed out BOTH the starter PLUS the starter switch would have to be stuck in order for that to run down a battery so quickly BUTTTTT if that were the case when you were charging it the starter would have gotten hot and it would have been awfully hard to charge the battery with that 200 amp and more load sucking current out of it lol, and that would have also required the starter switch to be stuck as "old" noted.

HOWEVER in the winter when cranking amps are high or the battery is low are times when a starter switch contacts tend to stick/weld together, but I still think if that were the case PLUS the starter would have to be stuck also the battery would be tough to charge and the starter might "smoke"

Did you loosen the starter bolts and/or rock it cuz if its the drive stuck/jammed into the flywheel teeth that can free it up. If a starter is indeed dead stuck and assuming the starter switch is still okay she wont crank and that heavy draw can zap a battery pretty quick. I"d insure if its really mechanically stuck before I would suspect the starter and instead check out a few more things below FIRST.

Next thing I would do is remove, clean n wire brush and re attach each n every battery n starter n switch and ESPECIALLY frame ground connection cuz a bad one anywhere can cause your symptoms as posted below. A bad conenction can allow low currents to run lights BUT arc n spark n carbon n fail when you pull high amps such as the starter.

NOTE do you know for sure the battery is good?? Make sure theres electrolyte above all the plates and that no cells exhibit a gray or milky color, If in doubt use a known good substitute battery and have a shop Load Test your battery..... .

Nowwwww ww if the battery is good,,,,, ,if alllll lll cables are good n clean n tight,,,,, and loosening the starter and/or rocking it insures its NOT mechanically stuck jammed,,,,, ,,,turn the lights on and depress the start switch!!!!! Ifffff the lights dim down badly the problem could be the starter is bad (other then stuck like a shorted armature etc) buttttt t if she dont crank and the lights dont dim much, it could be a faulty start switch or else still the starter (worn brushes maybe). You can in that event by pass jump around the switch direct to the starter n see if she cranks then and if so but NOT using the switch, suspect the starter switch.

Finaly as far as a slow battery dicsharge it depends on if its an alternatoror or still a genny and a VR, and if a VR its cutout relay might be sticking which makes the genny hot and pegs an ammeter to heavy - discharege n zaps the battery fairly quickly. or else oit may just be a short in the wiring somewhere.

Check the battery and/or use a substitute,,,,, check alllll l connections,,,,, ,,,,,un stick the starter,,,,, ,,do the start switch and by pass tests above,,,,, let is know n post back any questions.

Best wishes n God Bless

John T

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magman

07-29-2006 06:28:39




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 Re: M Problems ( Kind of long) in reply to Wisconsin Cowman , 07-28-2006 21:39:01  
when you rocked it did it turn the motor over if id did the starter is not locked. I would thin k you have a shorted battery. JON



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Nebraska Cowman

07-29-2006 05:15:28




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 Re: M Problems ( Kind of long) in reply to Wisconsin Cowman , 07-28-2006 21:39:01  
either a failing battery or poor connections will cause those symptoms. And then if you starter drive and ring gear are bad that just adds to your frustrations. Good luck.
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Gold for the mistress,
Silver for the maid.
Copper for the craftsman,
Cunning in his trade.
"Good" said the Baron sitting in his hall,
"But iron- cold iron - is the master of them all."

-Rudyard Kipling

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old

07-28-2006 22:21:47




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 Re: M Problems ( Kind of long) in reply to Wisconsin Cowman , 07-28-2006 21:39:01  
A starter that is locked up like that shouldn't drain a battery. Unless the switch on the starter has welded its self in the start position then yes it would do that. One way to check that would be to pull the strat off after unhooking the battery cable and then hold the start tight and hook the cable up. If the starter spins when you hook it up the starter switch is bad. If it doesn't spin then you have a short some place like a bad alternator or some other place

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