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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Alternator overcharging

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CharleyFarmall

07-09-2006 19:32:04




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Just finished rewiring my SC and fixing the mount for a DelcoRemy 10 alternator. It is clearly overcharging the battery. There are three terminals: BAT; R; F; I have BAT to the Ammeter and battery. R is looped to BAT. F is wired through a lamp to the switch. Any thoughts? This matches the posted diagrams as far as I know, except none of them list the terminals as R and F.




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Bob M

07-10-2006 04:39:09




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 Re: Alternator overcharging in reply to CharleyFarmall, 07-09-2006 19:32:04  
Charlie - If the alternator terminals are labelled R and F it means it's an early Delco unit. These require an external regulator for it to work properly!

An internally regulated alternator the aux terminals are labelled "1" and "2". Also the internally regulated's aux terminal spades are in line (like this: - - ) vs the the older units have the aux terminals arranged in parallel ( | | )

Anyway you need to either wire up the correct regulator or else swap in an internally regulated alternator.

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CharleyFarmall

07-15-2006 14:06:47




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 Re: Alternator overcharging in reply to Bob M, 07-10-2006 04:39:09  
Bob,
Thanks. I wondered if that might be the case once I saw what was happening but since I don't know much about the 10si and I've always seen them listed as having an internal regulator, I thought it just couldn't be so. Plus, I looked at the way I wired it and I have it wired the way everyone said. I have another alternator and will probably just switch it, but then, I have a regulator too...

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John T

07-10-2006 05:22:06




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 Re: Alternator overcharging in reply to Bob M, 07-10-2006 04:39:09  
Bob, Im pretty sure Ive also seen some labeled 1R and 2F (which are wired and excited like we normally do) instead of just 1 and 2 or R and F, maybe they were the newer internaly regulated with older cases ??? What ya think, you ever seen any labeled that way ???

John T



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Bob M

07-10-2006 06:12:36




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 Re: Alternator overcharging in reply to John T, 07-10-2006 05:22:06  
Hey John - Now that you mention it I believe I have seen a 10SI labelled like that. Also I have a 10SI kicking around that's stamped "made in France" - it has the aux terminals labelled something like "relay" and "lamp".

So disregarding the terminal labels, the most reliable way to determine whether an alternator is a 10DN (externally regulated) or a 10SI (internal regulator) is to look at the arrangement of the aux spade terminals as mentioned in my previous post.

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John T

07-10-2006 07:22:07




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 Re: Alternator overcharging in reply to Bob M, 07-10-2006 06:12:36  
On that I agree and think we can cast that one in stone lol The ones with the opposite (Im not smart enough to draw here) spade orientation as you pointed out, we're gonna call the 10DN External Regulated.

John T



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Bob

07-10-2006 07:18:47




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 Re: Alternator overcharging in reply to Bob M, 07-10-2006 06:12:36  
Back in about '71 or '72, some of the early 10SI-style alternators had a "dummy" regulator in place of the solid-state internal regulator, and still used the fender or radiator support-mounted mechanical voltage regulator.

I believe the terminals on those were oriented "I I", instead of the "- -" we are familiar with on the later internally-regulated units.

So, that explains the dual markings on some of the cases.

If the alternator will accept a connector with the terminals "flatwise", like the one in the photo below, I believe it will always be the correct, internally-regulated unit.

Third Party Image

I will try to run down one of those oddball alternators, and post some photos just to clear this up. It may take me a few days!

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John T

07-10-2006 07:26:06




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 Re: Alternator overcharging in reply to Bob, 07-10-2006 07:18:47  
That works for me Bob, thats a great pic you use to explain what takes me 100 words to say, and as you know I go with the in line 10 ohm resistor (in the excitation circuit) then add the diode only if she runs on, but either method werks fer sure.

John T



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John T

07-09-2006 19:52:34




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 Re: Alternator overcharging in reply to CharleyFarmall, 07-09-2006 19:32:04  
Charley, on the GM 10SI 3 wire alternator (requires negative groiund remember) the lil side No. 1R terminal is the Excitation Terminal while its other lil 2F is the Voltage Sensor. Its the 2F that jump wires up to the rear big main output stud NOT the 1R.

Heres my wiring instructions for the GM 10 SI it sounds like yours is wired dead wrong, hope its not hurt.

Heres how I describe wiring them. Bob M’s great diagrams puts it in pictures, which they say is worth a thousand words, so take a look and see for yourself.

Heres how I wire a GM 10SI Alternator and remember, it requires NEGATIVE GROUND !!!!! !

The big rear main alternator output terminal goes to the wire that used to be connected to the BAT terminal on the Voltage Regulator or Cutout Relay. HOWEVER if that wire wasnt already upgraded, when I convert from a Genny to an Alternator, I replace that wire with a 10 Gauge and it runs from the alternators main output up to the LOAD (NOT to battery/starter) side of the ammeter. I also replace/use 10 Gauge from the ammeters other SUPPLY terminal to the battery/starter.

The little side number 2F Voltage Sense Terminal gets connected (use a short 14 jumper wire) right up to to and with the big main output terminal mentioned above.

For the little 1R side Excitation Terminal, run a 16 or so gauge wire from the ignition switches IGN (which is HOT ONLY when ignition is turned on) terminal and in series with it place a 10 ohm 5 watt current limiting protection resistor (dont really need that much wattage power rating, but they are heavy duty built and easy to wire). Then in the rare event the tractor continues to run cuz of alternator backfeed when the ignition is switched OFF, I add in series a 5 amp 50 PIV minimum Diode. The diode must be wired with negative cathode end to the alternator and positive anode end to the switch. Again, the ratings are not that exact but about any diode over a few amps and 50 volts or so works.

Dont forget to change the battery to negative ground and the coil needs to be wired so the negative goes to ground via the distributor points and the positive gets power from the ignition switch and you have to reverse ammeter leads also if your just now changing polarities.

Good luck Ol John T in Indiana

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CharleyFarmall

07-10-2006 03:10:51




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 Re: Alternator overcharging in reply to John T, 07-09-2006 19:52:34  
I upgraded and changed wires appropriately. I also used Bob's diagrams but I couldn't tell which was R or F so I used the position based on the diagram and got them backwards. I'll swap terminals and check the output. I have another alternator if this one is shot.



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