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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Help Me Think

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Allan In NE

07-08-2006 06:09:53




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Mornin',

Lost 2 cylinders all at once on my ol' gasser tractor. Compression is swappin' holes between cylinders 2 and 3. No fluid loss of any sort. It was running fine one second, the next it is running on four. No noise, no warning, no nothin'.

An hour earlier, I had moved the tractor the 14 miles in here from out at the farm. It ran like a champ all the way. There is a very long (1 mile) and steep hill just before the drive here and I wonder if the backpressure of coming down that long hill finally made 'er let loose.

Has anyone actually ever seen a head gasket fail between two cylinders on these old IH gassers? I really don't wanna put an engine in it, but guess I will if I'm forced to. Too much blood, sweat and tears in it now. :>)

I'm pretty darned sure this is a 301 out of a combine, but don't really know for sure.

Allan

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Erik in WI

07-08-2006 10:29:42




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to Allan In NE, 07-08-2006 06:09:53  
Allan, If I can find the old headgasket, I will post a picture of it. Happend to my 706 about two years ago. Was feeding a round bale, and the old gal starting missing like crazy. Tore the head off and found a big chunk missing between the #2 and #3 cylinders. Hang on while I go look for it in the W.T.F parts pile....

Erik in WI



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Allan In NE

07-08-2006 09:01:03




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to Allan In NE, 07-08-2006 06:09:53  
Thanks Guys,

Guess I already knew what was coming, but just wanted to have the reinforcement of other opinions.

Sure like this place and the people who hang out here.

Allan



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the tractor vet

07-08-2006 08:39:17




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to Allan In NE, 07-08-2006 06:09:53  
Yep, they will eat a head gskt between two cylinder . Not a big deal Allen pop the head off clean up the deck run a bottoming tap down eack head bolt hole clean out all grease and oil with brake clean or either blow dry clean and chase the threads on the headbolts look for any crosion on the stem and if they are bad replace the bad one . Mill the head and while ya have it off do the valves and giudes . It is best if ya hve the head Milled rather then ground as with most head grindes they have a tendecy to dish the center of the head a bit while a rotory broch will keep it flat. Try and get a victor head gskt. as i have had less problems with the victor verses the Fel Pro . Also while your at it have the ends of the rocker arms reground as this will give a better valve adjustment . Torque the head to the max . spec's , also i use white grease on the threads for lube not to much just a lite coating and spray the head gskt. with spray Copper coat. When your all back togehter check the timeing at full throttel for total advance and Do not go over what is in the book for the engine and other thing with the 6 cylinder gasser as i have said before ya GOTTA run the 93 octain gas as this is one of the problems that ya run into along with swelling of the pistons and this can cause seezen the engine. BTDT.

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pcy1066

07-08-2006 07:58:15




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to Allan In NE, 07-08-2006 06:09:53  
if its a combine motor behind your alt at the top front of the block there is a flat spot that will have the motor info stamped in it, if its a tractor its beside the oil filter, if its a 301 it dont have sleves so there is no sleve grove at the top of the block for the gasket to seal against, quick cure get a mach shop to cut a grove in the head and put some 30 thsnds piana wire in it, depending on were yore valves are its possible for air to transfer between cylinders with the motor shut off however turning the motor shud send the air elsewere

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Janicholson

07-08-2006 07:09:52




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to Allan In NE, 07-08-2006 06:09:53  
I'm on the head gasket side of the discussion. The only persuasive answer so far. Down hill running even wide open usually causes the governor to close the throttle plate (at least part of the way) to attempt to reduce engine speed. This actually cuts back on the amount of compressable mixture in the cylinders, a high vacuum,(unlike a diesel). The rumbling and popping in the exhaust is due to the fact that there is so little mixture in the cylinders that it often fails to burn till it gets into the hot exhaust system. Where it ignites with a report. I do not think it would over pressure a head gasket, but it will blow the sides out of a weak muffler. A careful flatness check, and possibly a cleanup surfacing and a new gasket are the ticket. Just my 500$ estimate. JimN

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Bob

07-08-2006 06:40:40




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to Allan In NE, 07-08-2006 06:09:53  
There were never many "gasser" tractors of that era around our area, mostly diesels,

However, blown-out head gaskets were about as common as dirt on the 6-cyl gasser combine engines.

The symptoms were exactly like yours... leak between cylinders, with NO water leak.

Time to pull the head.



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Allan In NE

07-08-2006 06:45:53




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to Bob, 07-08-2006 06:40:40  
Really!

Okay, that's what I wanted to know. On my way.

Thanks Bob,

Allan



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Bob

07-08-2006 07:32:48




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to Allan In NE, 07-08-2006 06:45:53  
How long will it take for you to get a photo of the burned-out gasket posted?



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John T

07-08-2006 06:29:58




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to Allan In NE, 07-08-2006 06:09:53  
Allan, Although Im not much of an IHC man Id say loosing a head gasket BETWEEN two cylinders is a fairly common place to loose one as its a narrow thin seal going on there. If shes not white smoke steaming or blowing coolant externally sounds like its a pure blow out in that thin area BETWEEN two cylinders as you suspect. If you pull the head it may need sent to a machine shop to plane it down smooth in the event its warped or untrue. They can see if its warped or cracked etc at a machine shop. Maybe it was off at one time and didnt get toqued back down properly??

John T

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MAGMAN

07-08-2006 06:27:43




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to Allan In NE, 07-08-2006 06:09:53  
I think I would check the valve train first to make sure that a valve is not being held open or anything. Maybe a push rod nut came loose and tighteened up holding the valve open. JON



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Allan In NE

07-08-2006 06:32:26




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to MAGMAN, 07-08-2006 06:27:43  
Yes,

I had thought that too. There has been a little "tic" in the engine when first started ever since I adjusted the valves last spring. Just assumded I got one too loose.

Thing of it is tho, I don't think that would let the compression across two cylinders. If I hook my air compressor to the #2 hole, the air comes out #3 and vice versa.

Allan



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JeffL-TN

07-08-2006 06:46:50




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 Re: Help Me Think in reply to Allan In NE, 07-08-2006 06:32:26  
I'd lean toward the head gasket.

The valve theory could work if two intake or two exhaust valves were both held open at once..... Not likely. If as Allen said it is "swaping compression between two cylinders" That points to probably head gasket or long shot cracked head/block. I doubt it is a crack as you wouldn't be losing compression quickly enough to have the effect described.



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