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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super M trougle

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Tom O

06-15-2006 13:15:02




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Does anyone have any more ideas where I might find and correct the issue of my engine starving for gas after it gets hot with a load? I have even run a direct 1/4 inch fuel line with no restriction and I can bearly keep it running with the choke fully engaged. The carb has been overhauled and tuned with the same result. I have installed new points rotor distributer cap wires and spark plugs. Thank you for any assistance.

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Brownie 45

06-16-2006 04:42:51




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to Tom O, 06-15-2006 13:15:02  
To check the manifold gasket area , We use a pump oiler & squirt some oil around where a leak is suspected. If the engine picks up, after applying oil, check that area for problems.



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CNKS

06-15-2006 17:05:42




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to Tom O, 06-15-2006 13:15:02  
For some reason, whenever a SH or SM carb comes up everyone seems to think they are adjusted like the H and M carbs. Not true. The SH and SM carbs have a "fixed" main jet, much like the ones on the C113 and C123 engines, except that it can be leaned by turning the adjusting screw in if maximum power is not needed. Otherwise the adjustment is 5 turns out. It's in the operator's manuals.



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RustyFarmall

06-16-2006 04:49:18




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to CNKS, 06-15-2006 17:05:42  
CNKS, I have rebuilt H and M carbs, and I have rebuilt super H and super M carbs. ALL of these carbs use the same exact style of main metering tube, and they ALL use the same exact style of load adjustment hardware. In fact, the load adjustment screws and fittings are fully interchangeable between ALL H, M, SH, SM, 300,400, etc. A fixed main jet?



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CNKS

06-16-2006 06:27:25




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to RustyFarmall, 06-16-2006 04:49:18  
Read your manual Rusty. To quote from my Super H manual: "The carburetor on the gasoline engine is equipped with a a main jet fuel adjustment screw which can be used to reduce the amount of fuel going into the engine when under light load conditions. However, when heavy work is to be performed when the full power of the engine is required, the fuel adjusting screw should be set five turns off it's seat. The fuel adjusting screw seat in the gasoline carburetor has been calibrated to provide a full-power mixture and should not be restricted by use of the adjusting needle when the full power of the engine is required." When I "restored" my Super H, I adjusted the carb the usual way, in until rough, out until smooth, plus maybe 1/2 turn. I do not farm and have no good way to put it under max load. The tractor started and ran fine, accelerated ok, but, my building is on a slight incline. The tractor began cutting out when going up that 3? degree slope. That is when I read the manual. The load adjustment screws and fittings are interchageable, but that does not mean they are the same. Who knows how many of those carbs have the "wrong" parts in them. They will run fine, but apparantly produce more HP out with the right jet that is unrestricted. Most people will never know the difference -- that's why you have used the same parts in all. If you have not read the manual, you would not know that.

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RustyFarmall

06-16-2006 07:07:20




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to CNKS, 06-16-2006 06:27:25  
CNKS, I am not questioning the fact that you need to have the screw turned out 5 full turns, if that's what it takes to make it run, then so be it. But please, do not confuse the information in your owners manual with the information that is included in a Genuine Case-IH carburetor overhaul kit. I rebuild Farmall carburetors as a profession, I know what I am talking about, and I have never had a carburetor come back because it didn't operate properly.

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CNKS

06-16-2006 08:21:41




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to RustyFarmall, 06-16-2006 07:07:20  
I'm not confusing anything. I put a Case-IH kit in my Super H, I did not replaced the jet. If the jet came with the kit, I probably tried to remove the old one and stopped before I garfed it up (improper tools). I did not read the adjustment procedures because I, like you did not know there was a difference. I'm glad you can rebuild carbs and sell them at a profit. I think that most people will adjust their rebuilt carb so that the tractor runs and not say anything to you and not complain unless the thing didn't work. I do not remember how many turns I set mine at after the rebuild, likely 3 to start it, and then adjusted it the "old" way. It may run fine 3.5 out, certainly 4 out. I merely made the comment about the 5 turns out, because I am the only person that ever mentions it, and you are the only one that has ever questioned it. There really is not much to the letter series carbs, once you get all the crud out of them. I also do not know if CIH even makes the original jet for the SH/SM carbs, much less the one fits all aftermarket. And as you say it runs fine with the H/M jets. If I make mistakes on this forum (I have), I expect someone to correct me -- perhaps you should to, as no one knows it all.

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CNKS

06-16-2006 09:46:17




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to CNKS, 06-16-2006 08:21:41  
In an attempt to clarify this and bring peace, I looked through my old papers and parts and found my instruction sheet for my SH, I think, carb. My M parts book does not list a kit. The kit number is 354 453 R92, which matches the number in my SH parts book. The kit fits both the 1 1/4 and 1 3/8 carbs, SH is 1 1/4. It also does NOT say how to adjust the carb -- this gets IH out of having to give two sets of instructions: It says to use about 3 turns out as a starting point and and "Final adjustment is to be made in field operation". I assume if it is adjusted as some people do, out until it smokes and then in util the smoke disappears, then that will work on the M carb. The SH carb provided it has the correct jet, is not supposed to smoke, thus a person looking for smoke may leave it all the way out, and a person wanting a lean mixture will simply turn it out until it pulls what it is supposed to do. Thus I consider us both to be correct -- is that ok with you?

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Old Dutch

06-15-2006 14:54:42




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to Tom O, 06-15-2006 13:15:02  
Tom Is the trouble even happening with the clutch disengaged? If that is going on, I believe their has to be a restriction in the exhaust. That or you have a cracked manifold. Between the heat exchanger, or sometimes with the old manifolds for distillate, or kerosene. they had a box affair built into the manifold that would crack and ruin the fuel mixture, cutting off the power. You might also check the the precleaner on that tractor, by removing the oil bath bowl to see if it picks up. The only other thing I would recommend, is remove the muffler. If she comes to life then, you have a loose baffle restricting the flow of the exhaust. I wish you luck. Old Dutch

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Andy Martin

06-15-2006 14:39:56




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to Tom O, 06-15-2006 13:15:02  
Spray propane around the manifold (or starting fluid) while it is running. It will speed up if there is a vacuum leak. Don't go crazy on the amount of propane, it just takes a little out of a hand-held torch which is not lit. I don't think it is a vacuum leak or you'd have trouble when not hot and not under load.

How much have you drained out of the tank through the fuel line, best through the carburetor?

If it is not at least a gallon you have not let it drain long enough.

Sometimes vibration while it is running will let the fuel obstruction bounce over the hole in the tank, if that is what it is.

You can replace the carburetor drain with a hose barb. Put a clear hose on the barb and elevate it above the carburetor. This will show you the fuel level in the carburetor. Start the engine and see if the fuel level drops when it dies. If it does, you have a fuel restriction.

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Janicholson

06-15-2006 14:00:33




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to Tom O, 06-15-2006 13:15:02  
You do not say coil in your description of replaced parts. Choking it might make the spark jump a little easier if the coil was getting hot and breaking down.

A cracked manifold that warps when hot wolud leak air in when hot allowing lean conditions.
Distributor advance malfunction could cause missing when hot, check advance mechanism (under points)
JimN



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TomO

06-15-2006 14:07:30




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to Janicholson, 06-15-2006 14:00:33  
I did replace the coil new. It may need a resister in series with it though. I read earlier that it may cause spark problems if the coil is not at 3 ohms. I am leaning toward the cracked manifold or gasket leak. Is there a simpler test other than removing the manifold to check for leaks. I can see no visible crack from the outside.



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Andy Martin

06-15-2006 14:41:46




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to TomO, 06-15-2006 14:07:30  
You did not say that you had replaced the condenser, just the points. Condensers can open up when they get hot.



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El Toro

06-15-2006 13:53:28




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to Tom O, 06-15-2006 13:15:02  
Have you opened the main jet adjusting screw? You
need to turn this CCW when the engine is at full throttle and until you get a little black smoke from the exhaust pipe. Then turn it CW until it quits smoking. This is how you enrich the fuel mixture. Having to use the chole is an indication
of an engine starving for fuel. Hal



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El Toro

06-15-2006 13:54:39




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to El Toro, 06-15-2006 13:53:28  
That was supposed to be choke. Hal



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TomO

06-15-2006 14:02:16




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to El Toro, 06-15-2006 13:54:39  
I have opened it up and closed it off with no noticeable change other than it dying upon closing it. It is now at the mid range or about 3 turns out.



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El Toro

06-15-2006 15:23:36




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to TomO, 06-15-2006 14:02:16  
Have you checked the float level? I would use air and blow out that main jet. It may have some dirt in it. The float level should be at 1 5/16".
Hal



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JeffL-TN

06-15-2006 13:53:26




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to Tom O, 06-15-2006 13:15:02  
Vent the tank. Bet your cap is not breathing.



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Nat 2

06-15-2006 13:47:21




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to Tom O, 06-15-2006 13:15:02  
Just because it's been "overhauled and tuned" doesn't mean that it was done correctly. In fact, it's fairly easy to screw it up. It's also fairly easy to get it right, too. How many turns out is the mixture screw?

The line's clear, but what about the sediment bowl at the tank? What about the tank itself? Getting the tractor hot may be a time issue, not a temperature issue. The chunk of crud that's restricting the fuel flow takes just about that long to work its way up to the fuel inlet in the tank, for example.

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Tom O

06-15-2006 13:58:24




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to Nat 2, 06-15-2006 13:47:21  
The mixture is about 1 turn from seat. I have drained the tank from the fuel line and had no noticeable restriction. I have also taken the gas cap off in case there may have been a problem there. I may remove the gas tank and clean it out. My pastures are sure getting ragged and need mowing. Thank you for your assistance.



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Roger in Iowa

06-15-2006 13:44:22




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 Re: Super M trougle in reply to Tom O, 06-15-2006 13:15:02  
Is the vent in the gas cap working? Disconnect the line at the carb and drain 5 gallons out (with the cap in place) and watch the stream. It may be getting a vaccuum in the tank and not allowing fuel to flow.. Would be even better to use the drain port in the bottom of the carburetor but gets messier.

Roger in Iowa



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