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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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SMTA -factory no T/A

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ih650

06-06-2006 19:10:41




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I'm trying to buy a SMTA that is factory with no T/A? It runs with fair tires and tin. What do I look for? What is it worth and what would it bring restored?




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CNKS

06-07-2006 17:38:54




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to ih650, 06-06-2006 19:10:41  
Harold H is correct, a SMTA has a Super MTA decal without the torque amplifier wing. To quote Guy Fay's statement on p 113 of his Letter Series book: "Tractors produced without the TA required different model symbols without the TA "wings", resulting in a circular decal much like, but different from, the Super M, or Super 6 decals. A Super MTA without the TA attachment is still a Super MTA, not a Super M." In other words it was simply a round decal with Super across the top and MTA underneath. It was NOT a Super M.

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Beckort

06-07-2006 14:30:50




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to ih650, 06-06-2006 19:10:41  
If it is SN 60001 or above it is without a doubt a SMTA, regardless whether is has a TA or not.



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Cotton Picker

06-07-2006 08:15:26




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to ih650, 06-06-2006 19:10:41  
Harold H is correct, they were fairly common in the Mississippi Delta. I own one that is number 235 from the last one made, and it is a t/a delete.



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the tractor vet

06-07-2006 08:26:04




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to Cotton Picker, 06-07-2006 08:15:26  
What was on the hood decal this is what i am getting at ????



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Cotton Picker

06-07-2006 08:47:46




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to the tractor vet, 06-07-2006 08:26:04  
After 52 years in our climate there were not any decals left, have seen both kind.



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the tractor vet

06-07-2006 09:01:53




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to Cotton Picker, 06-07-2006 08:47:46  
Ok , well i guess we need and org. parts book to figure this one out . As i was just a young pup when i got to drive a brand new S/MTA in late sept. of 54 during the patato harvest at my uncles it was a wide ft with powerful steering and myself i liked it far better then the 88 Oilall over that he had as it was the only wheel tractor that he owned all the rest were crawlers . It was a Demo that a dealer sent out for a few days tryen to get local guys to buy . My whole point is that they can't be a S/MTA with out the T/A .

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Dave Slater

06-07-2006 09:47:17




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to the tractor vet, 06-07-2006 09:01:53  
Whatever you want to call it is not that big a deal. But everyone seems to know what kind of tractor there talking about when you say SMTA without a T/A. On the other hand if you post on here you have a SM everyone will just figure its the ones made with center an transmission housing that wasn't made for T/A.



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Dave Slater

06-07-2006 05:15:14




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to ih650, 06-06-2006 19:10:41  
If it came that way it won't have a S suffix after serial #. Have only saw 2 like that since started looking at tractors. One had no hydraulics with the special rear gas tank support, besides that tractor I only saw picture of support in parts book.



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Nat 2

06-07-2006 05:04:17




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to ih650, 06-06-2006 19:10:41  
Tractor vet is jerking your chain. T/A was optional from the get-go on the SMTA. It was installed on MOST of the tractors because it was the newest whiz-bang gadget and IH wanted the farmers to try it, like it, and buy it. Dunno about back then, but since I've been around, it's been pretty common for farmers to test drive tractors in real work conditions before buying. I'd be surprised if that's changed much over the years.

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the tractor vet

06-07-2006 07:37:23




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to Nat 2, 06-07-2006 05:04:17  
I know that it was and option on any I H Farmall what ever along with live hyd and pto till they went to hydrostatic steering then live Hyd was std and everything else was opt. But what i am sayen here is that your are not listening is that it can not be called a S/MTA because it does not have a T/A in it IT could have the live hyd's and live PTO but it would not be called a S/MTA it would be a S/M . I have bought a couple of 06-56 with out a Factory T/A and around here you could not give them away , everybody complains about the junk I H T/A's so ya go and buy a tractor that never had it from the factory and try and sell it they think that your tryen to sell them a two headed snake. I have had a couple 706's that came frome the factory with out a PTO and there are some that have no PTO or hyd hitch . Now i may have not written any books on I H tractors but i have been around them for a lot of years long before i opened my doors to fix them for John Q Farmer . Now like i said it can not be called a S/MTA with out a T/A now if Bermudia Ken has the true story and i am wrong then i will bow and take my thiry lashes . Keep in mind that i was useing and fixen the I H tractors long before they became Kool to fix up and make trailer queens out of , and over here the S/MTA is still a everyday working tractor in the field as we have a bunch of them wright around me as if we did a round up it would take atleast 6-8 48 foot stepdecks to load and haul all of them and i am not sure we could get them all on.

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redbrand

06-06-2006 22:15:26




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to ih650, 06-06-2006 19:10:41  
Do alot of research on this tractor and check everything..Have been told that you could order a mta without a t/a because it cost less..Have heard these tractors are very rare..If they made them..How many 1954 super m"s have you seen???I'VE ONLY SEEN MTA'S..Hope this helps



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John A.

06-06-2006 21:47:26




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to ih650, 06-06-2006 19:10:41  
ih650, I usually do not dispute guys like "tractor vet" but this time I will. SMTAs were built with a 'factory delete" opition. They WILL carry a different oval than the regular SM or SMTA decal. They ARE still a SMTA, even though the TA was deleted at the factory. OBTW... There should be cork stoppers in the torque tube holes. Check Guy Fays Letter Series Book pp113. They are somewhat rare, what are they worth.....Heaven only knows. Probably not a lot different that any other SM. Hope this helps.
Later,
John A.

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the tractor vet

06-07-2006 08:14:08




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to John A., 06-06-2006 21:47:26  
It may have the same center section but the it will not be called a S/Mta as the T/A is the torqure amp. that is what i am tryen to get across to you .



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the tractor vet

06-06-2006 20:44:14




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to ih650, 06-06-2006 19:10:41  
They never made a S/MTA with out a T/A so someone is pulling your chain .



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Harold H

06-07-2006 05:16:54




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to the tractor vet, 06-06-2006 20:44:14  
A large portion of the SMTA's (and later tractors) sold in the Mississippi Delta were sold without TA.

Harold H



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RustyFarmall

06-07-2006 04:42:34




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to the tractor vet, 06-06-2006 20:44:14  
The TA was an option from the very begining, it was never standard equipment, and the SMTA was still labled as a SMTA even without the TA, although the hood decal did not have the "torque amplifier" wing on it.



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the tractor vet

06-07-2006 07:05:48




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to RustyFarmall, 06-07-2006 04:42:34  
Then it would not be a S/MTA it would be a S/M , And yes the T/A was and option but not on a S/MTA along with the live PTO and the live Hyd .So it comes down to this that if it does not have a T/A then it can not be called a S/MTA it can be called a S/M as if it does not thar the center section of a MTA it's just and old S/M , now someone my have put a stright shaft into it because he was to cheep to repair or replace it when it went out . Now i could be wrong on all of this but unless Guy Fay or Ken has some solid proof i stick by my guns that if it does not have a T/A then it can not be a S/mta.

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Harold H

06-07-2006 07:17:30




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to the tractor vet, 06-07-2006 07:05:48  
The SMTA without TA was still a SMTA, not a SM, although it was the Stage III of the Super M. Basicly, Stage I SM no live hyd, Stage II SM live hydraulics, Stage III SMTA with or without TA.

Harold H



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the tractor vet

06-07-2006 08:00:14




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to Harold H, 06-07-2006 07:17:30  
It can not be called a S/MTA with out a T/A now it may have the center section of a T/A with a stright shaft and live PTO but it will not be called a S/MTA That is like buying a farmall 400 that did not have a Factory T/A the Toqure Amphlphier emblem was not on the hood it was just a 400 or a 450 or 560 or whatever and the same would also apply to the S/M seires it would just have the S/M decal and it would not say S/MTA on the hood with OH WAIT A MIN THIS TRACTOR IS A S/MTA WITH OUT A T/A it would just say S/M .

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Harold H

06-07-2006 10:23:53




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 Re: SMTA -factory no T/A in reply to the tractor vet, 06-07-2006 08:00:14  
The decal on a SMTA with TA said SMTA with a banner saying Torque Amplifier. The decal on the SMTA without TA said SMTA but did not have the banner saying Torque Amplifier. I don't know if you can still get these decals now or not, but that's what the original decals said.

Harold H



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