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M Burning Points - Question from Bob M

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Wicksfield

06-02-2006 06:53:38




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Strange thing, I can't find my post of yesterday discussing coils and resistors on this forum. As I recall, one of the replies, from Bob M?, inquired what was the part number for the NAPA resistor? P/N is VT6187 and made by Echlin.




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John M

06-02-2006 11:03:54




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to Wicksfield, 06-02-2006 06:53:38  
Save yourself the headaches and just put a 12 volt coil with a built in resistor and you wont need the external.You really dont need the resistor if you use a 12 volt coil.I think the whole concept of the resistor has been forgotten over the years.



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John T

06-02-2006 09:32:18




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to Wicksfield, 06-02-2006 06:53:38  
Wick, we all had this well covered ad nauseum but it got lost grrrrr rrrrr rrr now we all gotta start over..... ...

We all, including Bob and Bob M and myslef n others, suspected and it appears were correct the reason the points burn up so quickly is cuz you were severly over currenting them.

Since it was lost, heres the basics again, then you can do the math:

1) To avoid premature point burn up you wanna limit their current being switched to around 4 or less amps.

2) At 12 volts that means you need a total primary ignition resistance (coil plus any ballast) of around 3 ohms.

3) The coils primary resistance is measured between its lil + and - terminal so measure it,,,,,then use a ballast of sufficient ohms so it PLUS the coils resistance is 3 ohms or a lil more total.

NOTE if you use a Thermistor, a heat compensating resistor, you need to use what its ohms are at warmed up temperature to perform the calculations above. What it does is to be at lesser ohms when cold for better cold weather starting but then once warmed up its ohms increases so as to limit the points n coil current to that 4 amp or less figure I quoted above.

Get it????? ??

Let us all know, fun electrical discussion

John T Bloomington, Indiana

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Wicksfield

06-02-2006 09:39:22




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to John T, 06-02-2006 09:32:18  
John T, I made a copy of the message from yesterday for safe keeping with my M manuals. As it turned out, good thing I did.



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Bob

06-02-2006 08:51:31




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to Wicksfield, 06-02-2006 06:53:38  
Problem SOLVED....

NAPA VT6187 is a VOLTAGE REDUCER for accessories such as heater motors, that draw WAY MORE current than an ignition system, so, under the lower current draw of the ignition system, it will not drop the voltage nearly enough!!!

NOW we know why you are burning points... the resistor you have is not even made to be used on the ignition system!

What you need is an IGNITION BALLAST RESISTOR....

NAPA # ICR-13 or Standard Ignition # RU-10

They are rated @ about 1.77 Ohms to 1.87 Ohms.


Alternately:

NAPA # ICR-23 or Standard Ignition # RU-11

This is the Positive Temperture Coefficient ballast resistor for use in circuits without a "starting bypass". It's cold resistance is about .50 to .60 Ohm, and quickly rises to about 1.75 Ohms upon startup due to heating from the current flowing through it.

This gives better starts on units without the bypass from the starter switch or solenoid, yet the resistance quickly rises for long point life, and to keep from overheating the coil.

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Wicksfield

06-02-2006 10:01:04




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to Bob, 06-02-2006 08:51:31  
Bob - Actually I haven't tried the NAPA resistor yet. When burning up points like Grant took Richmond, I was using the resistor supplied with the Alternator Kit that tested out at 0.6 ohms.



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Bob M

06-02-2006 08:28:20




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to Wicksfield, 06-02-2006 06:53:38  
The NAPA part number I have is 13ICR. However it's on the ballast resistor I purchased from NAPA about 30 years ago - not certain it's still a valid NAPA number...

FWIW that same resistor saw service on my '66 Plymouth prior to being "transplanted" onto my Super M. Buy whatever resistor fits that car and you've got the right one!



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arod

06-02-2006 08:18:07




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to Wicksfield, 06-02-2006 06:53:38  
NAPA:
12 Volt distributor parts.

  • IC10SB -Mileage Plus, ignition coil

  • ICR13 -ECHLIN, coil resistor

  • PR143 -ECHLIN, rotor

  • RR145 -ECHLIN, cap

  • RR174 -ECHLIN, condensor

  • CS763P -ECHLIN, contact set



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Bob

06-02-2006 07:11:56




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to Wicksfield, 06-02-2006 06:53:38  
I asked for the part number. (I am in ND, and BobM, I believe is in NY.)

Not sure I will get a chance to check on that resistor today, will post back if I do. (I have to check on a couple of ill GREEN tractors today!)



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Stan(VA).

06-03-2006 06:38:23




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to Bob, 06-02-2006 07:11:56  
Bob,
I did see your response to my post a day or so ago before we lost them. I was not aware of the PTC ballasts, so thank you! That makes a lot of sense, sounds like a good idea, but I've been having trouble finding specs for them on-line. I've only found a ref to a Mallory 700 with specs of 0.75 to 1.5 ohms, 200 watts (and that page didn't even list the temperature response).

The numbers listed in this thread (NAPA # ICR-23 or Standard Ignition # RU-11) will be helpfull, but where do you find the specs for these? In my searches they just come up as an ignition ballast and I can't tell the difference. My curiosity is getting the best of me ;) but I'd be really interested in seeing a temperature vs resistance vs time chart in this application.
Thanks,
Stan(VA).

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Kim

06-02-2006 06:54:56




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to Wicksfield, 06-02-2006 06:53:38  
We lost some messages yesterday... I'm working on recovering them but you should probably repost your question meanwhile.

Sorry about that!



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Wicksfield

06-02-2006 07:42:21




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to Kim, 06-02-2006 06:54:56  
Kim, we're too old to remember what was in a message that was lost!!!



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Nat 2

06-02-2006 06:58:10




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 Re: M Burning Points - Question from Bob M in reply to Kim, 06-02-2006 06:54:56  
Yeah, I was going to say that it looks like we're missing everything from May 31st on through about 7PM on June 1st.



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