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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum

Farmall Super AV

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Dereck Borders

05-22-2006 07:19:55

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I have a super AV that i am planning to restore. It has the C123 engine in it with the side hydraulic pump and a water pump. It did not have aserial number but I found on that should be a 1953 343XXX. The best I can tell the engine is the original but the serial number plate is missing. Also the hood seems a bit short for the distance from the grill to the gas tank. A friend said this was a hood from a distilate tractor. Would the serial number plate I have be acceptible for this tractor and if not does anyone know of a salvage plate I can get somewhere? Thanks, Dereck B

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Hugh MacKay

05-22-2006 13:22:01

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Re: Farmall Super AV in reply to Dereck Borders, 05-22-2006 07:19:55

Dereck: To start with a 1953 Super AV would not have come from the factory with C-123 engine or a water pump. The block part number from the factory would have been 354898 R1. It is the same block as C-123 but it would have come from factory with thick sleeves giving it the same 3" bore as all earlier Super A. At serial number 310300, IH started using this block, but in the Super A or AV it remained C-113 until serial number 356001. After that they were given 3-1/8" bore and a water pump making it a C-123 through to the end of Super a production at serial number 357958. Those last 1,957 tractors were called Super A1 or AV1. Don't confuse 1 with I, I stands for industrial.

I suspect the reason for the above is as of 1951 the Super A was the only tractor left using a C-113 engine, as Super C had gone C-123. It was probably less expensive to make thicker sleeves then cast two separate blocks.

The engine serial number of a 1953 Super A or AV will not give you a true indication of the tractor serial number. By 1953 engine serial numbers for Super A were aproximately 2,000 higher than tractor serial number. By 1958 in the 130 and 230 it was off by 47,000 and by 1963 with 140 and 240 it was off by 80,000.

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Janicholson

05-22-2006 07:52:43

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Re: Farmall Super AV in reply to Dereck Borders, 05-22-2006 07:19:55

The engine serial is stamped into the engine on a raised area near #1 plug on the block. If the block has been replaced it will not have meaning. The casting codes for years are on this site and can help keep things "Kosher"
JimN

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Dereck Borders

05-22-2006 07:59:56

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Re: Farmall Super AV in reply to Janicholson, 05-22-2006 07:52:43

I guess what I am asking is does the engine have to be changed out and if so to what one? I have read the 113 and a 123 without water pump. I am not very familiar with Farmall but on John Deere sometimes parts could be from a different year model because Deere used what was on the shelf until they used them up.

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Red Dave

05-22-2006 09:16:59

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Re: Farmall Super AV in reply to Dereck Borders, 05-22-2006 07:59:56

I don't know any reason why you would have to change out the engine. To be original? A super A would have come from the factory with a C-113 with the hydraulic pump, until late in the model run. Many had a water pump added later, it's a bolt-on job, no modifications are needed.

But are you sure that it is a C-123 block? You would have to check the part number of the block to be sure. If you are going by cylinder diameter, most C-113's got oversize pistons & sleeves when rebuilt, giving them 123 cubic inches.

Even if it's not the original block, I would not replace a good block just to be original. It takes a very sharp eye to see any difference between the two blocks, and even then very few people would know how to tell the difference anyway. And nobody with any manners would point it out.

Just my opinion, others may see it differently.

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