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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Flat Ground Cable

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Dellbertt

04-18-2006 17:17:17




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Is the flat woven ground cable better or worse than round wound cable. Or no difference.

Dell




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PAULIH300

04-19-2006 02:48:20




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 Re: Flat Ground Cable in reply to Dellbertt, 04-18-2006 17:17:17  
I never liked the flat,exposed cable.Every one I have ever seen has been corroded because there was no insulation to protect the strands.And that will cut down current transfer and eventually break (or melt away,as I have seen).In my opinion,you cant beat 2/0 insulated cable with soldered terminals and heat shrink tubing.It will last forever and once bent,will keep its shape.



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John T

04-18-2006 18:26:05




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 Re: Flat Ground Cable in reply to Dellbertt, 04-18-2006 17:17:17  
Dell, the only answer I can give is IT DEPENDS. Im NOT trying to be smart or nuttin but be it flat braided or bunched stranded cable, it still has a certain ampacity rating and the higher that rating the better and the less voltage dropped n wasted as heat energy across the cable versus it being expended across the starter where it does the most good to crank the engine over faster. Still, one has to compare apples to apples, i.e., a light 8 Gauge cable, even if flat braided or fine stranded, still doesnt have the ampacity of a 4 Gauge single solid cable, you still have to make an apples to apples comparison.

Nowwwww wwwww all that having been said, I prefer the flat braided strap ground cables for their flexibility, originality and looks. Sooooo ooooo heres the technical advantages and differences in cable design and reasons why the braided may be considered "better."

Due to a phenomenon of current flow in cables called the "skin effect" the most current is carried in the outer portion of a cable which is why some of the inner core portion of a large single strand cable is wasted. Thats the reason Welding cable and Flat Braided Cable has more strands of fine wires then lesser strands of larger diameter wires cuz the skin effect makes more smaller wire strands more efficient PLUS the cable is more flexible. Get it????? ????? A cable made up of tons of very small conductors is more flexibile and more efficient cuz if it were one big solid large diameter single cable, most current flows only in the outer portions.

I prefer a flat braided ground strap myself cuz of the inefficiencies of lesser larger conductors versus smaller but more conductors caused by the skin effect,,,,, ,,plus its more flexible,,,,, ,,,,, and looks neat and original more original.

Thats my story n Im a stickin to it

John T

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KEB

04-18-2006 21:14:15




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 Re: Flat Ground Cable in reply to John T, 04-18-2006 18:26:05  
John,

I'll take exception to some of that explanation. There is no skin effect at DC. If you calculate the skin depth, it goes to infinity at 0 Hz. At 60 Hz, one skin depth is about 0.85 cm and can be ignored for all practical purposes until you get into large diameter high-tension cables (which are aluminum over steel). Skin depth is only a concern if you're designing high power RF transmission lines or woven shielding material.

At DC the current is evenly distributed through the conductor, and the only thing that matters is the total cross sectional area. A flat braid containing the same amount of copper has the same resistance as a round wire.

Unless you're in a high vibration environment (an old tractor doesn't qualify, a military aircraft does) or need to constantly flex the conductor, it becomes a matter of what you happen to like best and/or what's readily available.

Fine wires are used to make cables flexible and less likely to break. Ever seen a 4/0 locomotive cable? They're designed to withstand the vibration & flexing of the connection between the locomotive frame and the individual trucks. The individual strands are extremely small and there's a large number of them. Welding cable is of similar construction, in order to provide enough flexibility to allow a person to freely handle the electrode.

Just a little clarification.

Keith

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Janicholson

04-19-2006 06:14:10




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 Re: Flat Ground Cable in reply to KEB, 04-18-2006 21:14:15  
I agree, though I have read that even 60hz power transmission systems (at high voltage 100,000 level) also respect the skin effect in the design stage. (are you sure about 8.5mm depth to the skin)
JimN



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KEB

04-20-2006 11:46:28




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 Re: Flat Ground Cable in reply to Janicholson, 04-19-2006 06:14:10  
Yes, at 60 Hz one skin depth is about 8.5 mm. One skin depth is the depth at which the current has decreased to 1/e (e=euler"s number), or a little less than 2/3 of the total current.

Large power lines do take skin effect into account. The large (several inch)diameter cables used in high tension transmission lines are made up of a steel core with an aluminum outer layer. The bulk of the current flows in the aluminum, which is a better conductor than the steel.

Keith

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John T

04-19-2006 06:07:49




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 Re: Flat Ground Cable in reply to KEB, 04-18-2006 21:14:15  
Thanks Keith for the info, I love these sparky discussions. Ive never worked in RF, just DC or Seconday AC Distribution mostly, not aware of the frequency variations on skin affect. I still love and would recommend flat braided original looking cables for originality and flexibility although agree one needs to keep them cleaned of corrosion build up.

Fun discussion

John T



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VAJerry

04-18-2006 17:29:31




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 Re: Flat Ground Cable in reply to Dellbertt, 04-18-2006 17:17:17  
I've used a flat braided 1 gage wire on my super A for years. It's easier to route on the A.



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