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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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1953 Farmall Super A - Hydralic Problem

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James Malcolm

04-12-2006 17:06:01




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Hi,
My father passed away and left me this tractor.
The tractor had been sitting up for about 2-3 years. I was able to get it cranked but the power take off won't work. The main box unit under the gas tank got hot and started to leak fluid at the joints. I opened the filler plug and fluid ran out. There must be a valve plugged or a bad bearing somewhere.
Anyone know what is wrong and what I need to do?
Thanks,
James

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Hugh MacKay

04-12-2006 19:10:17




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 Re: 1953 Farmall Super A - Hydralic Problem in reply to James Malcolm, 04-12-2006 17:06:01  
James: Before you tear into that hydraulic system, one question, what position were the hydraulic levers in when this happened? If the levers were all the way forward or all the way to rear, it may be that the hydraulic levers are out of sinc with rochshafts. If that is the case it will get hot very quickly.

Go back start the tractor, with with hydraulic levers in mid position. With tractor idling, slowly move the lever (one lever at a time) completely forward, listen for the tractor to start laboring. If that doesn't happen try the rear position of same lever. Then do the same with the other lever.

What you are trying to determine here is whether rock shaft completes it's stroke as the lever hit it's stop. You will here it start to labor engine if rock shaft reaches end of stroke and you still have lever travel left. You can adjust linkage to each lever to correct this.

Your pto is probably rusted in the shift mechanism, if tractor has been parked for awhile. Usually these will free up with use as oil gets circulated through transmission.

Charlie gave you the money fix, I on the otherhand am a Scotsman. He may well be right, but I always try the cheap fix first. It costs very little money to listen and adjust accordingly. Good luck, and come back if you have queations.

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CNKS

04-12-2006 20:00:35




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 Re: 1953 Farmall Super A - Hydralic Problem in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-12-2006 19:10:17  
I suggested the kit because he said it was leaking -- a later post indicated it was leaking at the gasket for the pipe mounting, and also at the "base of the unit"; the latter is probably the seals on the pistons. Although the piston seals can be replaced (with difficulty) with the unit on the tractor, it is much easier with it off. As long as it's off he may as well put a kit in it, instead of shortcutting something that will have to be fixed later. That, along with the proper adjustment of the levers that you mentioned, will vastly improve the performance of the unit, provided he doesn't have pump problems. I did that 3 years ago on my C, my Super A is badly in need of it. I will do it when I "restore" it, if I ever get to that particular tractor, unless it crashes first and makes me do it. Happens to be the one I use the most. Also the most junky looking, needs engine work also.

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Hugh MacKay

04-13-2006 02:00:24




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 Re: 1953 Farmall Super A - Hydralic Problem in reply to CNKS, 04-12-2006 20:00:35  
CNKS: I think I missed something in this discussion. I see James is telling me now he gets no reaction when moving the levers. Fortunately I've never had one of these apart, and I knock on wood for that one.

You are probably correct on the need for a kit. I have seen these loose hydraulic function, for lack of oil, but that will occur long before it gets hot and will not cause the unit to leak anywhere. I had a neighbor call one day, his pump was hot, no hydraulic function and the cause, the cylinder type screen on the side of the touch control unit was plugged. He did get by cleaning up the screen that day but told me later he had to replace the pump shortly after.

These tractors with touch control and indeed all the Farmalls with live hydraulics, before the days of using transmission as resovoir just never had enough resovoir to do the job intended in my opinion. First problem is if they developed an unnoticed internal leak during the work day they could quite easily pump the system dry. Secondly because system was so small any dirt in there was kept stired up by turbulance. And finally, some of the hydraulic systems I used later in my farming days, proved in my mind the very best way to keep a hydraulic system heat down, was lots of resovoir. I know I'm talking about much larger systems, but IH just were a bit too stingy on hydraulic resovoir. I guess the McCormick's were Scotsmen as well.

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James Malcolm

04-12-2006 19:26:02




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 Re: 1953 Farmall Super A - Hydraulic Problem in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-12-2006 19:10:17  
Thanks Hugh! I will definitely try what you have recommended. I did move both levers forward and back and the lifts did not raise. I will start at the mid position and try that. The thing must have built up some high pressure as it heated up because it starting leaking at the base and where the tubing is attached to the side of the unit. The thing has never leaked before. I will let you know tomorrow evening what the result was.

By the way, I am a Scotsman too. Malcolm is AKA MacCallum, (Derived from follower to Saint Columba of Scotland). I belong to the MacCallum/Malcolm Society.

Thanks again, James Malcolm

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Hugh MacKay again

04-13-2006 03:15:19




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 Re: 1953 Farmall Super A - Hydraulic Problem in reply to James Malcolm, 04-12-2006 19:26:02  
James: Send me an e mail my e address is exposed, and I have a funny but interesting story for you about this Scotsman trait.



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Hugh MacKay

04-13-2006 02:38:14




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 Re: 1953 Farmall Super A - Hydraulic Problem in reply to James Malcolm, 04-12-2006 19:26:02  
James: If you are not getting any hydraulic function when you move the levers, probably Charles was right on from the beginning. Maybe you do need the kit. Lack of hydraulic function can only mean one of two things; either something is plugged or the system is very low on hydraulic oil. Have you checked the oil level as per the manual? Have you cleaned the screen at bottom of touch control on left just ahead of battery? You shouldn't run the tractor, at least not very much until this problem is corrected. Right now you may only need a $100. kit, You keep running it while hot and you'll soon need a new $350. pump. Just yet the pump must be damn good or you wouldn't be getting this heat.

Here is what I would do next, and all of this has to be done to install the kit anyhow. Drain the system of all oil that will come out drain at the base of touch control. Then remove the cylinder type screen. If it is plugged or yes even plugged so badly it has collapsed, I would clean it up, maybe even get a new screen. If that screen is plugged, after cleaning or replacing, I would fill touch control with new hy-tran, just to see if that makes any difference in hydraulic performance.

However if that screen is clear and not plugged, you may as well order up the kit. No point in even filling it back up with oil. I don't think low hydraulic oil is cause of your problem, as that wouldn't cause leaks at pipes coming from pump. Sounds more like your trying to pump oil through a blocked passage.

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CNKS

04-12-2006 17:27:26




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 Re: 1953 Farmall Super A - Hydralic Problem in reply to James Malcolm, 04-12-2006 17:06:01  
As to the hydraulics, the best thing to do is take it off and put a $100 kit from Case-IH in it. Not particularly hard, just time consuming. You can get at it easier if you remove the gas tank. There are no bearings, probably a stuck valve somewhere. Don't know what is wrong with your pto -- Make sure the linkage is causing it to engage. It is also easy to remove, and you can see the entire transmission by removing the top cover.

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James Malcolm

04-12-2006 17:40:38




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 Re: 1953 Farmall Super A - Hydralic Problem in reply to CNKS, 04-12-2006 17:27:26  
Thanks for the info... Why do you think the hydraulic unit under the gas tank heated up?

James



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CNKS

04-12-2006 18:22:49




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 Re: 1953 Farmall Super A - Hydralic Problem in reply to James Malcolm, 04-12-2006 17:40:38  
I don't know, the oil got hot because something was stuck (that's a profound statement). One thing -- the touch control levers do not return to a neutral position as the controls in more modern systems do, although there is as adjustment that does about the same thing -- it does not always work perfectly though. If you hear a whine, you need to move the levers forward or backward until it stops, a constant load on the system will cause it to overheat.

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Mark

04-12-2006 21:07:55




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 Re: 1953 Farmall Super A - Hydralic Problem in reply to CNKS, 04-12-2006 18:22:49  
Aye, tis time I chime in hyere and tell me story.....I too am of Scottish descent...McFarrens (old folks spelled it MacFarren).

Hugh and CNKS have both helped me in the recent past. Every day with these old Farmall's is a new adventure and a learning experience. I have had green tractors for the last 20+ years and actually never had to work on them. But, in the last 2 months I have bought 3 tired Farmalls and each one has something needing attention.

I just got finished rebuilding the hydraulic unit on my '53 SA and was a real bassard for me. Mainly because I have a bad back and the thing must weigh 150 pounds. Hoss it around a few times and you'll invent new cuss words real quick..I did! Mine was leaking around the control valves and so, I bit the bullet and bought the kit...$97 and change off ebay. When you finally get the unit off the tractor, I suggest you set it in a large container..I used a plastic baby bathtub...because when the head comes off, more oil will pour out. I had nothing (manual) to tell me anything...you get inventive when you have too. The control valves have to be yanked free from their bores as the rubber seals hold them firmly in place. I used pliers...didn't seem to damage any surfaces by doing so. I suggest you pull out one valve, replace the O ring(s) and then put it back in it's respective bore before moving on to the next one. This way, you don't forget where it went or how. The pistons can be tapped free from their bores from the rod end..I used a rubber mallet. The instructions in the kit are next to useless. There will be two head gaskets...use the thicker one. There will be O rings left over..the instructions tell you so. They put in enough because there are at least 2 versions of the hydraulic unit..one used more O rings than the other. After you get it all back together, try to get somebody to help you heft it back on the tractor..save those gonads! And for what it's worth.....I used ATF in mine, works like a charm.

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James Malcolm

04-13-2006 05:14:22




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 Re: 1953 Farmall Super A - Hydraulic Problem in reply to Mark , 04-12-2006 21:07:55  
Thanks Mark! Man.... I was afraid of this. I think I have something stuck or frozen up inside my unit after sitting for 3 years. I think I will take the unit off and take it down to Hays Tractor in Mansfield Ga. and let them rebuild it. If this tractor wasn't a family heirloom from my father, I might just put it in the Market Bulletin..Ha Ha. It is a good old tractor though and I have all the planters, cultivators, harrow, tiller and I bought a 3 point hitch and then purchased a Bush Hog and Box Blade for it. I guess I'd better keep it. Yeah working on the internal organs of a hydraulic unit may not me my calling. I work as a Traffic Planner in a large company and all I do is work on the computer all day.
Thanks again from this Scotsman.

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