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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Bleeding fuel lines

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Ray in Ga.

04-11-2006 16:23:29




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I"ve been fixing up an IH 484 for a friend who came by it when he bought a house. The previous owner left it behind. Been piddling around with it since last August replacing seals, water pump, beating out dents:-) When I started, I knew nothing about tractors or diesel engines. That became readily apparent when I told my son I was going to get some spark plugs and tune it up. When he got done laughing at me, I ran to the internet to study up:-) All this time, thought the thing has run great. Always cranks right up and I have run it for hours at a time. The other day the tractor stalled for the first time. I discovered a piece of plastic bag hanging off of the fuel float and figured that was blocking my fuel line. Also fished out a gas can funnel and cap while I was in there! I went ahead and replaced both fuel filters and bled them through the top screws. Problem is now it runs great for around 30 minutes and then dies a slow death. Sometimes it will crank back up, but will only run for a couple of minutes. I checked to see if fuel would come out of the bleed screws on both fuel filters. Nothing comes out. I tried both filters every few minutes with no luck. Then after about 15 minutes or so, the fuel started flowing again. I have traced the fuel lines looking for a fuel pump to no avail. I am beginning to think it is incorporated into the fuel injector pump, though everything I read leads me to believe there should be a separate pump somewhere. Can someone explain this system to me and tell me where the fuel pump is? How do I bleed this thing correctly, especially if I can"t find a fuel pump? The owners manual says to bleed the system, then crank up the engine. So I have to believe there is a manual way to force the air out. Or could it be something else entirely?

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wayne from wi.

04-12-2006 15:16:51




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to Ray in Ga., 04-11-2006 16:23:29  

You may have a fuel vaccum caused by the vent being clogged in the fuel cap. As the tractor runs, a vaccum is created until it stops the fuel flow. The tractor then shuts off and won't start until air pressure equalizes.



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Ray in Ga.

04-12-2006 18:37:38




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to wayne from wi., 04-12-2006 15:16:51  
I thought about that so I tried running it without the cap. The cap isn't all that tight anyway. It is actually the bottom of a plastic coke bottle with a hose clamp. It appears that the vent is a small tube coming up from the bottom of the tank. I chose not to mess with it beyond cleaning the underside. I figure with the fancy gas cap I have, venting is not an issue:-) Anyway, I think I found the problem; a plugged fuel fitting. I will know for sure when I put it back together.

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FromJB2

04-12-2006 14:24:44




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to Ray in Ga., 04-11-2006 16:23:29  
Hi Ray, I know it can be frustrating. When it stops take the fuel line from the tank off at the inlet to the fuel filters and if it does not flow at the full of the pipe then you have a problem. I can't remember how the tank is vented, loosen the tank cap and see if the fuel flows.

JB2



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Ray in Ga.

04-12-2006 18:33:03




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to FromJB2, 04-12-2006 14:24:44  
JB, you hit the nail on the head here. I finally sucked it up (not literally of course) and drained the tank again. I disassembled all of the fittings and sure enough, the fitting going to the fuel line was blocked. It wasn¡¦t much, but it was pretty tight. I decided to go ahead and wash out the tank. I didn¡¦t realize how much stuff was in there until I saw what a clean one looks likeƒº Now that it is all apart waiting to dry out, I guess I should try to find a new shutoff valve. One of them is stripped and I can¡¦t tighten it down. I have looked around, but so far haven¡¦t had much luck.

I appreciate all the help from you, the Vet and Allan. I guess I didn¡¦t want to believe the obvious until you guys sort of convinced me. I am still puzzled by the lack of a fuel pump. I have a 15 degree grade out back. Do I need to back this thing up the hill like in the old days? Just kidding.

Thanks guys,
Ray

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FromJB2

04-13-2006 17:40:27




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to Ray in Ga., 04-12-2006 18:33:03  
Hi Ray, just keep at least 1/2 tank of fuel if you have steep hills. Another tip is to put some Diesel fuel conditioner or about a tablespoon of motor oil in the fuel tank everytime you add Diesel fuel. Reason the Bosch injection pump has a lip seal on the pump drive shaft and the only lubrication is from the Diesel fuel. This worked well until the new EPA rules reduced the sulphur content of Diesel fuel and this reduced the lubricating ability of Diesel fuel.
If this lip seal fails you end up with Diesel fuel in the crankcase oil. The part is only about $8 but it takes a couple hours to change plus a cranckcase oil change.

Good luck with the 484.
JB2

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Ray in Ga.

04-13-2006 19:47:42




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to FromJB2, 04-13-2006 17:40:27  
Thanks for the tip. I ran the tractor today for several hours without stalling. I had to quit when a link in the hydraulic control lever broke:-( Guess that is the fixit project for tomorrow. One day I will get a whole days work out of it!
Ray



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FromJB2

04-11-2006 18:05:48




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to Ray in Ga., 04-11-2006 16:23:29  
Hi Ray, most likely you have junk in the bottom of the fuel tank. You probably noticed it is a saddle tank with fuel feeds from both sides of the saddle. Most often one side is totally blocked and the other side will have some junk not totally blocking it. Last time it happened to my brothers 684 it was a lady bug. Solution is to drain both sides of the tank by removing the fuel outlet from both sides of the tank. Then remove the fuel line were it comes from the tank into the fuel filters and with compressed air blowout those lines back to the tank. 484 will usually start with just bleeding the air out at the fuel filters and putting the STOP/START/RUN on START and do some cranking of the engine with the starter. DON'T RUN the STARTER to long as it will get hot. If it dosen't start then do as the Vet says crack an injector line at the back of the injection pump.

JB2

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Ray in Ga.

04-11-2006 20:44:25




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to FromJB2, 04-11-2006 18:05:48  
Well, I have drained the tanks twice now. Guess I can do it again, though it now has a lot more fuel in it:-( I have disconnected the fuel line from the tank to the first filter and blown it out. I really haven't paid attention to the return line on the other side. Is it possible that this could be a problem? If there is trash in the bottom of the tank, I don't really know how I can get it all out. Not a big hole to reach through you know. As for getting the thing to crank up again, if I wait awhile until I see fuel coming out of the bleed screw, the tractor will usually crank up fairly easily.
Thanks,
Ray

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the tractor vet

04-11-2006 16:34:38




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to Ray in Ga., 04-11-2006 16:23:29  
You still have something blocking the flow from the fuel tank as it should run a solid stream of fuel and it is a gravity flow to the filters and to the pump , now the pump will do some sucking but you must have good flow to the pump and once you have good flow to the pump then crack the lines open at all the injectors and crank the engine over at full throttel till only fuel is comming out then tighten the lines and start the engine as the least bit of air will air lock the system.

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Allan In NE

04-11-2006 17:42:02




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to the tractor vet, 04-11-2006 16:34:38  
I agree with the Vet; your problem is still upstream.

Might be such a thing that you will have to replace those filters yet once again.

Sounds like maybe some kids were playin' around the fill cap?

Bottom line is that the first order of business is that you've got to get a good strong flow out of the filters before even thinking about bleeding the system.

Then, if you get 'er running and it will probably bleed itself anyway.

Allan

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Ray in Ga.

04-11-2006 20:26:20




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to Allan In NE, 04-11-2006 17:42:02  
Its interesting that this thing uses gravity to pull the fuel down. I keep taking the thing apart looking for trash in the line. The first two times when I disconnected the line from the fuel tank, no fuel came out. Poking a metal rod up in the opening definetly opened it up. The first time I drained the tank and removed the aforementioned bag and spout. The second time I drained it, I could not see anything in there. The only thing I could figure is that the gas sensor float was dropping down in just the right place. So I reformed it (bent the wire). It isn"t being used anyway as all of the wiring has been ripped off of it. Now, each time I disconnect the line, there seems to be no stoppage. I have disconnected both ends of the line from the tank to the first filter and blown it out as you mentioned. Still has the problem. I even removed the filter mounting bracket to see if there was a problem there. It is beginning to look like I am going to have to drain the tank again and clean it out good. It really doesn"t make sense though. I would think that if there is trash causing the problem, it would not remove itself after sitting for a while and then come back later. I am convinced that it is a heat related issue causing some air to expand causing enough pressure to stop the thing up. I really don"t want to replace the filters again, them things are expensive! Anyway, the bleed screw in on the intake side of the filter, so I tend to think the filter is O.K.

Guess I will tear into again tomorrow. At least now I know to quit looking for the pump. I may start out by bleeding at the injectors per Vet"s suggestion.
Thanks guys.

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Ray in Ga.

04-11-2006 20:22:39




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 Re: Bleeding fuel lines in reply to Allan In NE, 04-11-2006 17:42:02  
Its interesting that this thing uses gravity to pull the fuel down. I keep taking the thing apart looking for trash in the line. The first two times when I disconnected the line from the fuel tank, no fuel came out. Poking a metal rod up in the opening definetly opened it up. The first time I drained the tank and removed the aforementioned bag and spout. The second time I drained it, I could not see anything in there. The only thing I could figure is that the gas sensor float was dropping down in just the right place. So I reformed it (bent the wire). It isn"t being used anyway as all of the wiring has been ripped off of it. Now, each time I disconnect the line, there seems to be no stoppage. I have disconnected both ends of the line from the tank to the first filter and blown it out as you mentioned. Still has the problem. I even removed the filter mounting bracket to see if there was a problem there. It is beginning to look like I am going to have to drain the tank again and clean it out good. It really doesn"t make sense though. I would think that if there is trash causing the problem, it would not remove itself after sitting for a while and then come back later. I am convinced that it is a heat related issue causing some air to expand causing enough pressure to stop the thing up. I really don"t want to replace the filters again, them things are expensive! Anyway, the bleed screw in on the intake side of the filter, so I tend to think the filter is O.K.

Guess I will tear into again tomorrow. At least now I know to quit looking for the pump. I may start out by bleeding at the injectors per Vet"s suggestion.
Thanks guys.

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