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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Slow cranking M

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MarkCo

04-03-2006 18:19:03




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I think I remember seeing something about this some time ago. We have an M with a new battery, generator and starter checked out(tested out fine), new battery cables(all connections clean) and the tractor cranks over slow. It is still a 6v system. Would converting it to 12v be a good idea? What all needs to be changed to convert over? Maybe we're missing something and someone can point us in the right direction.

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captaink

04-04-2006 06:49:50




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 Re: Slow cranking M in reply to MarkCo, 04-03-2006 18:19:03  
Others have told how to keep the 6-volt up and going. To convert to 12 you will need a battery, a resistor (or coil that is 12-volt ready), new light bulbs (or new lights), and an alternator (or 12 volt generator). If it hasn’t already been done, I also recommend changing the push button starter switch to a remote solenoid with a secondary terminal that is live only when the solenoid is engaged. If you do chane to a solenoid, you will need a push button or an ingnition swith to operate it. You do not need a starter as the original one will function just fine on 12-volts.

Unless you want to keep the tractor original, I strongly recommend converting to 12 volts. A Delco 10si alternator is very popular, however I believe that there is a Hitachi alternator that is popular also. Both will fit under the hood with no modifications to the hood and slight modifications to the mounting brackets. I mount the resistor and the solenoid on the battery side of the rear fuel tank bracket out of the way. This also allows a short wire to run from the starter solenoid (or switch) to the coil side of the resistor to provide a 12-volt start/6-volt run system.

I have converted all my "working" tractors to 12 volts (B, C, 2 Ms)and a couple older vehicles and have NEVER regretted it. Starters stand up, engines start fast and few if any times do I have problems with starting. If you work at night you have brighter lights, and you can add a power point if you want to power any modern accessory you may want to add. Besides that, batteries can be bought from any place that sells 12-volt car batteries.

Benefits many, the only drawbacks I can see is it’s not stock anymore (it’s up to the owner if this is an issue or not) and the hand crank mechanism in the front bolster will probably rust tight(er) from non use. :>)

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Brownie 45

04-04-2006 06:20:01




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 Re: Slow cranking M in reply to MarkCo, 04-03-2006 18:19:03  
After a hard start, feel the cable end connections at the starter switch, starter, & battery [ground connection also]. Are they warm/ hot? If they are, there is a high resistance at that point. A lot of battery cables have inadequate terminations which lead to poor starting. The best thing to improve this condition is to strip a small amount of insulation off next to the terminal end, & solder the connection. I use a propane torch for heat & run enough solder into the joint to bond the cable & end terminal.

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Dave NE IA

04-04-2006 06:14:59




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 Re: Slow cranking M in reply to MarkCo, 04-03-2006 18:19:03  
One of the biggest things overlooked on 6 volt is that your starter ground itself. My guess is there could be a little rust after 50 years of service. Take a wire brush and clean where the starter bolts to the frame and the frame of the tractor as well, you may even need a file or a wood chisel to clean it up to a bright finish. I see many folks cleaning the battery conections, but the cable where it bolts to the frame has never been cleaned for 50 years. This was a scam years ago when you brought your starter in for repair. Little if anything was done, but they told the tractor owner to clean where I mentioned and by golley gee it worked. Dave NE IA

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john d

04-03-2006 21:31:49




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 Re: Slow cranking M in reply to MarkCo, 04-03-2006 18:19:03  
Check and clean all connections. Use HEAVY cables. Be sure the starter is in good shape and the battery is charged. Make sure points and plugs are good, as 6 volts may crank it, but may not crank it long! If it still won't start well on 6 volts, it's likely as Tractor Vet described. I've got a '49 M that's been tinkered with to the point that a 6 volt battery would crank it VERY slowly, and only about 2 revolutions. 12 volts made a different machine out of it. If your tractor is for show, try to leave it on 6 volts. If it has to work to earn its keep, you'll be happier with 12 volts.

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El Toro

04-03-2006 19:41:02




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 Re: Slow cranking M in reply to MarkCo, 04-03-2006 18:19:03  
You need 00 battery cables and put volt meter
leads across the battery terminals and check the charging volts with the engine at 2/3 - 3/4 throttle. Hal



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Michael Soldan

04-03-2006 18:36:58




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 Re: Slow cranking M in reply to MarkCo, 04-03-2006 18:19:03  
Mark, I have two H's on 6 volts and they spin over fast, your M should too. There are a lot of M's around starting on 6 volts easily. What did you test on the starter? A starter may work on the bench but be drawing too much juice. The end bushings should not allow any play or binding, brushes should be in good condition , sometimes the armature needs to be turned, or someone has jumped the starter, held it on too long, heated it up and cooked some wiring. I'm only suggesting what may cause a starter to work poorly. The cables you have put on should be 6 volt cables, the 12 volt ones are thin and do not conduct 6 volts well. You stated you have checked your generator, a 6 volt generator should be putting out 8+ volts or it won't charge a battery fully, is the battery testing 6 volts? With what you say you have done , the M should turn over easily. My next thought would be how does it run when it starts, if it is way off timing it would be harder to turn over. I'm going to leave it there and you can let us know about what tests were done and how..others will have opinions and maybe collectively we can help you...Mike in Exeter Ontario

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the tractor vet

04-03-2006 18:36:42




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 Re: Slow cranking M in reply to MarkCo, 04-03-2006 18:19:03  
Even with good starters and good correct cables and a good high amp 6 volt battery if that old M has had high compression pistons and head put on it it will turn slow as did my buddys M that we did over way back many moons ago it turned the engine over like you were hand crankeing it and IF we could ge the fan to make half a turn it would start Like i said IF . And yes going to 12 volt would help and it is not a big deal doing it as there are a couple way that it can be done it is all in the way you want to do it.

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RustyFarmall

04-03-2006 18:27:05




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 Re: Slow cranking M in reply to MarkCo, 04-03-2006 18:19:03  
If you haven't already done so, replace the battery cables with the large 0 guage or larger if you can find them. That is usually all it takes to make that starter wake up and take notice.



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