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Page post on HP torque

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Aces

03-24-2006 11:49:36




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Kevin had a good post about HP and torque. It will compute out on paper every time. But I don't think the ricer would ever do the job of say an 806D. The only way to get torque is with cubs. Take like a one ninty XT ac at about 305cid and a 966 with 414cid the 190 will use less fuel than the 966 but when it gets tough going the 966 will out work the 190. Or a 560 282 with terbo at 100hp an 806361 will out work the 560. It takes cid to do work, or like the new 4.7 v8's in pickups, I got a 4.7 dodge with 245HP my 96 with 318 and 225 would run all over the 4.7 and better milage with the 318. So what works on paper not always the way things play out.

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ricedaddy

03-28-2006 09:38:53




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to Aces, 03-24-2006 11:49:36  
Have you ever looked at the specs of an engine in a magazine and seen something like "this engine makes 300 pound-feet of torque at 4,000 RPM," and wondered how much power that was? How much horsepower are we talking about here? You can calculate how many foot-pounds of horsepower this engine produces using a common equation:

(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower
The engine that makes 300 pound-feet of torque at 4,000 RPM produces [(300 x 4,000) / 5,252] 228 horsepower at 4,000 RPM. But where does the number 5,252 come from?

To get from pound-feet of torque to horsepower, you need to go through a few conversions. The number 5,252 is the result of lumping several different conversion factors together into one number.

First, 1 horsepower is defined as 550 foot-pounds per second (read How Horsepower Works to find out how they got that number). The units of torque are pound-feet. So to get from torque to horsepower, you need the "per second" term. You get that by multiplying the torque by the engine speed.

But engine speed is normally referred to in revolutions per minute (RPM). Since we want a "per second," we need to convert RPMs to "something per second." The seconds are easy -- we just divide by 60 to get from minutes to seconds. Now what we need is a dimensionless unit for revolutions: a radian. A radian is actually a ratio of the length of an arc divided by the length of a radius, so the units of length cancel out and you're left with a dimensionless measure.

You can think of a revolution as a measurement of an angle. One revolution is 360 degrees of a circle. Since the circumference of a circle is (2 x pi x radius), there are 2-pi radians in a revolution. To convert revolutions per minute to radians per second, you multiply RPM by (2-pi/60), which equals 0.10472 radians per second. This gives us the "per second" we need to calculate horsepower.

Let's put this all together. We need to get to horsepower, which is 550 foot-pounds per second, using torque (pound-feet) and engine speed (RPM). If we divide the 550 foot-pounds by the 0.10472 radians per second (engine speed), we get 550/0.10472, which equals 5,252.

So if you multiply torque (in pound-feet) by engine speed (in RPM) and divide the product by 5,252, RPM is converted to "radians per second" and you can get from torque to horsepower -- from "pound-feet" to "foot-pounds per second."


Here are some interesting links:

How Horsepower Works How Force, Power, Torque and Energy Work How Car Engines Work How Rotary Engines Work

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Aces

03-25-2006 08:49:57




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to Aces, 03-24-2006 11:49:36  
Like I said it works on paper, but look at the new cars the little 1 & 2 leters hardly have as much torque as HP. You have to have CID to do work. But it on paper and let the small block read it he still will not do the work or put out the torque.



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Cedric

03-25-2006 01:46:12




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to Aces, 03-24-2006 11:49:36  
Tractor Vet, I have a Blue Ribbon Service Manual for the H and Series 4 tractors which also includes the U-4 and IU-4 Power Units. Charts showing performance curves have been printed for the two power units. Max. torque of 110 lb. ft. is produced at 1200 rpm. I have assumed that these figures would be the same for the tractors. If you send me your e-mail address I will scan the page and forward it on. You will probably make more sense out of the graphs than what I can.
Sid.

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ricedaddy

03-24-2006 21:20:53




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to Aces, 03-24-2006 11:49:36  
Torque has nothing to do with C.I. Torque equals HP times 5252 divided by rpm's



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the tractor vet

03-25-2006 06:45:52




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to ricedaddy, 03-24-2006 21:20:53  
So your telling me that a 350 hp engine at lets say 2100 rpm are all going to have the same torque ??? now we talken ture HP or advertised HP. so if you bulid a small block chebby and you tell me that it makes 350 hp that it is going to have 1350 FTlbs of torque at 2100 rpm wright .



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the tractor vet

03-24-2006 12:19:34




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to Aces, 03-24-2006 11:49:36  
That is for sure . 855 Cummins Nt seires factory 350 hp small cam now show me a gasser that is turning out socalled 350Hp and see if it wiil do what it will do then tweek the cummins a bit with the twist of a screw and a couple spring changes there is no compering what is on paper . Even those computer prograhm that you can build and run and engine on the computer does not work out in the real world . Now as long as i have been working on I h's i have never seen the torque rating on any of the tractor engines , but someone must have them . Myself you can talk Horse Power all daylong and i could care less show me the figures on the torque at at what RPM it will hold and the rise of torque now that will get me excited. or a tractor that will run at over it's rated power after some tinkerern .

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chadd

03-24-2006 13:02:00




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to the tractor vet, 03-24-2006 12:19:34  
I am right with you there tractor vet. People always talk about the best sound in the world is a Porsche, a Ferrari, a Chevy 350, or (huh?) a rice burner with a can. Personally, give me a cranked up 6 cyl. diesel (I really love our cranked 806D), a 4 bottom plow, clay soil, LOTS of black smoke, and the sound of a REAL engine. If you look at IH tractor horsepower figures, they were always pretty close to the competition, but it always seems to me that the torque those IH diesels put out was quite a bit higher than most. I suppose I am biased though. Sometime I am going to have to find out what one of those engines makes for torque, it has to be a pretty big number.

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Randy as in Randy-IA

03-24-2006 15:47:59




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to chadd, 03-24-2006 13:02:00  
Talking about sound , my personal favorite is a 101 ci Harley with straight pipes pulling two up on a 6% uphill grade . Seriously though , torque is more a result of stroke and hp of rpm . That's why bigger engines ( read diesels or monster motors ) turn at a MUCH lower rpm than smaller engines . Of course I'm talking on road engines . The kitty cat in my kenworth is rated at 325 hp , but it puts out just over 1350 lb ft of torque at 1800 or so rpm's . And it's an old 1982 3406 big cam . It's all a matter of stroke and cubic inches to get usable work at a low rpm , so the rice sucker couldn't really get any real work done no matter what gear set you put behind it until it reached it's upper limit of the rpm band and then you might as well quit because it'll have about 1450 rpm's left , what does that remind you of ? ...Randy

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the tractor vet

03-24-2006 16:01:02




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 03-24-2006 15:47:59  
Now that is one engine that grate on me like dragen you ft. teeth across a concret side walk and when they come past the house it is all i can do to keep from unloacking the gunsafe and dragen out one of the toys with a thiry round mag and seen if i can still make that 1000 yard shot at amoving target



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Randy as in Randy-IA

03-24-2006 17:42:30




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to the tractor vet, 03-24-2006 16:01:02  
Hope we can still be sociable ? I know that those harley sounds can be annoying but when you're 25 and a rebel without a cause that was the point . Now I'm 49 and don't ride mine anymore , it has just been sitting in the shed rotting away for the last couple of years . I bought it brand new in '84 before they were " trendy and fashionable " . Had a couple of sportsters before that and a couple jap bikes before that . Now i like the sound of the poorly tuned engine in my M . I think I need one of those electronic ignitions for the m as I never was very good at setting points even though I converted the electronic ignition in my harley to points about a month after I bought it . Take care T. V. ...Randy

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RustyFarmall

03-24-2006 12:52:10




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to the tractor vet, 03-24-2006 12:19:34  
Also, when shopping for a new car or truck, take those rated horsepower figures with a big grain of salt. Take special note of the rpms required to achieve those hp figures. Usually the rated rpms are clear up in the stratosphere, usually in excess of 4,000 rpms. Normal driving and cruising rpms will be down around 1,800 or less, which is just about where an M or H farmall runs.



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the tractor vet

03-24-2006 16:21:24




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 Re: Page post on HP torque in reply to RustyFarmall, 03-24-2006 12:52:10  
Yep , just like if ya took a 454 chebby and put it up to a big inch 4-6 banger at the same RPM guess what will out pull what . Heck CAT CUMMINS DETROIT MACK IH all did there thing with the V8's and a little old 6 cylinder would clean there KOO KOO CLOCKS . Back many moon ago there was this guy with the same last name as me and he was also into the Coal BUCKETT trucking with his 1978 4300 Eagel with a 440 Detroit V8 13 speed and he and his river rat buddys thought that they had the baddest coal buckets on the road OOOOO Ppppps then he ran into me and my buddy with out littel old 350 small cam Cummins well we all loaded the same weight on the scales and all left together going to the same place till the first hill when me and old SLOW POKE and i left the pack ent down and dumped and were twenty miles north of where we dumped when we saw them comming least to say that they were just a bit upset well the Rat Pack as we called them took all there double breasted Yamahas to the Detroit shop and spent the whole nite getting there engines worked on and the vary next day were back at the salt mine loading and going where my buddy and i were going and we all left together till the first hill on I 71 and that was the last time we saw them till we were on the way back needless to say they were realy P###*** off Well OLd HoG HEAD DISSIPIEARED for a couple weeks and the next time we saw him he was driven this big black Freightliner with this 3408 Kitty turned up and was going to show us how it was done , NOT seem's that he could not handel these two 4300 350 small cam Cummins So ya can't beat and inline 6 just like in a pickem up truck when it gets down to lets tug a load up a hill ya can't beat a inline and a standard trans, or rollen dirt they may sound good but good don't get it.

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