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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super M engine overhaul... disasterous? Clearance

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Tim Malin

02-25-2006 20:50:18




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I am working on No. 2 of my three Super M's. It needed an engine overhaul, but it needed a little work on one cylinder (.003 bored) and the crank, too. I had a VERY reputable engine shop do my work.

I was supposed to get my engine back this morning. It was almost completed last night.

Supposed to.

Last night my machinist was measuring the cylinders with the sleeves in them and found that they were egg shaped, by about .0004 inches. I guess this is a bad thing? I have no frigging clue. My uncle, who has overhauled millions of Farmalls, said he had never looked at the cylinders for that, the sleeves came out, the sleeves went in, and he started it up. He made the joke that "I don't think my eye would notice it off that much." (He has one glass eye.)

Also, the spec clearance between the piston and sleeve was way higher compared to what he was reading, and my machinist said that it could scoar the sleeves if it got heated up and the pistons expanded. So he decided since there was nothing to do about the egging he would at least bore it out to specs.

But the head studs won't come out, and his bore machine won't go down far enough because of it. I was going to buy a drill operated hone tonight, but haven't found one.

Ask me questions... I have just never heard of so much **** going through an M engine as I have from this one from the very second I pulled the head. I know I'm not being charged hourly for the labor, but I'm wondering if the engine will be just fine without all the tweaking.

As of right now the plan is that I'm going to bring my drill and my hone out and finish the bottom of the cylinder, and he can measure until they are at least close, and then we will call it.

I am well over my head on this one, boys. Doing it doesn't worry me... whether or not I am doing it for the right reasons scares the tar out of me... Looking for some expert advice here. Thank you friends.

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Tim Malin

02-26-2006 17:08:01




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 Re: Super M engine overhaul... disasterous? Cleara in reply to Tim Malin, 02-25-2006 20:50:18  
This is a brand new overhaul kit I'm putting in, the new sleeves are in it. I've had enough. If he has already honed part of the cylinder, do I have to finish the bottom of it? I draw the line. I think he is full of bull**** too for an M. Thanks for your help, friends.



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El Toro

02-26-2006 12:28:08




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 Re: Super M engine overhaul... disasterous? Cleara in reply to Tim Malin, 02-25-2006 20:50:18  
My IH manual states the dry sleeves require no honing. You should slide a new piston ring into each sleeve and measure the end gap. You do this measurement in several places in all the sleeves. The recommended end gap should be within these specs .013" to .023". This engine is governed at 1600rpm's that's just above a fast
idle compared to a car. Hal



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Dave Slater

02-26-2006 10:32:50




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 Re: Super M engine overhaul... disasterous? Cleara in reply to Tim Malin, 02-25-2006 20:50:18  
You have some good advice,but im curious about some things in your post.Its not clear to me if new sleeves are being used or the sleeves that was in engine already.What about one cylinder needing bored .003 in your post,is this before sleeve is installed or after? If using new sleeves & pistons from a quality manufacture the bore in block should be checked before installing sleeves.If its within spec for the sleeve being used and sleeve is installed correct no other machine work should be needed.Will take some time
but a good machinest can remove studs.

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Mark

02-26-2006 09:34:06




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 Re: Super M engine overhaul... disasterous? Cleara in reply to Tim Malin, 02-25-2006 20:50:18  
Well, about time for some old fashioned horse sense to be applied. Wonder when that cylinder got egg shaped.....day one? Now your machinist may be the best and perhaps he is used to working on hi-performance/hi-rpm street engines. I applaud a man who takes pride in his work and wants to get things down to a fine line, especially when it really matters. BUT, you are dealing with a low rpm tractor engine....I don't know the max. governed rpm's but I'd bet 2200 is close. You can get by with things perfectly in these old engines that would destroy a hi-rpm street engine in short order. These fellers here have told you right...yank out the old sleeve, slide in the new one..move on to next step.

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R-cubed

02-26-2006 09:27:19




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 Re: Super M engine overhaul... disasterous? Cleara in reply to Tim Malin, 02-25-2006 20:50:18  
I agree with the others that unless you misplaced the decimal point that .0004 is a non-issue. (four ten-thousandths) Most tractor mechanics don't have the technology to measure that close.



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RustyFarmall

02-26-2006 04:25:58




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 Re: Super M engine overhaul... disasterous? Cleara in reply to Tim Malin, 02-25-2006 20:50:18  
I think you need to fire your machinist. He is full of you know what. Your uncle is right, you pull out the worn sleeve, you install the new sleeve, and finish assembling the engine. That is what sleeves are all about. I think your machinist id trying to impress you with his ability to measure finite tolerances. A Farmall M does not need that fine of measurements.



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El Toro

02-26-2006 04:06:19




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 Re: Super M engine overhaul... disasterous? Cleara in reply to Tim Malin, 02-25-2006 20:50:18  
I think that machinist is full of bull, .0004"
is nothing I would agree with your uncle and put the engine together. You need that kind of clearance on piston pins. Hal



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Janicholson

02-25-2006 21:25:31




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 Re: Super M engine overhaul... disasterous? Cleara in reply to Tim Malin, 02-25-2006 20:50:18  
In my opinion .0004" is not a horrible number. Much depends on which way it is egged, and how much clearance the piston is running at the skirt.
I would find A sunnen straight hone with 400 stones, and make it nice. Be sure to keep a 35-40 degree cross hatch on the pattern.
JimN



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Shaggy

02-25-2006 21:23:50




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 Re: Super M engine overhaul... disasterous? Cleara in reply to Tim Malin, 02-25-2006 20:50:18  
I am no expert but if you buy a hone you will need to get a fixed or adjustable hone not a Flex hone. A flex hone will not square things up like you want. There are others that know a WHOLE lot more than I do and hopefully they will jump in.
Shaggy



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