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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Attn: Jeff Jackson: Super M Hydraulics Part 3

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Nat 2

01-13-2006 06:05:28




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Jeff,

This is either going to make things clearer or confuse the heck outta you :)

From your last response to me, it sounds like you're using the belly pump as a reservoir only. It sounds like it's using that drilled hole that I mentioned earlier as the pickup, and the drain as the return, or vice versa. It also sounds like you don't ever pull the belly pump lever on the side of the tractor, but instead use a separate spool valve. Good. The picture is getting clearer.

Dad put a 5 gallon reservoir under the fuel tank of his Super M, but he doesn't have a belt pulley drive, and the tank does kinda stick out from the right side a little.

2.8 gallons will be better than a belly pump reservoir with the pump still installed. I'd go for it, and leave the belly pump intact. You'll either have to plug the two holes in the reservoir or connect them with a hose (personally, I'd plug them). You could then restore and use the belly pump as it was originally intended, for single-action hydraulics.

OR, you could get really fancy and combine the external tank with the belly tank. For this you gotta figure out which is the suction and which is the return. Install the new tank, then run the bottom outlet from this tank down to the return hole in the belly tank. Leave the pickup line from the belly tank to the live pump. Leave the line to the spool valve, and add additional spool valves by connecting them to the OUT port on your existing valve. Run the OUT port from the last spool valve to the top port on your new reservoir.

BTW, double-acting spool valves can also operate single-acting cylinders.

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Jeff Jackson

01-13-2006 06:58:31




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 Re: Attn: Jeff Jackson: Super M Hydraulics Part 3 in reply to Nat 2, 01-13-2006 06:05:28  
I"m slow but I"m getting there LOL The way it is being used now is with the lever for the belly pump as the control...the spool valve isn"t installed yet. There is a line coming from the live pump (part of it metal and a larger hose) is going to the front of the belly pump. Another line comes down and out from the rear of the pump and returns to the pump (I"m assuming this is the suction). I wish I knew how to post pictures as I"m sure this would make it clearer. What I"m wanting to end up with is to be able to use the single acting hydraulics for the mounted cultivator and loader that I have and a set of 2 way hoses for rear drawn implements. Did I muck this up anymore? LOL Thanks to everyone for all of their input and advice. It is truly appreciated!

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Nat 2

01-13-2006 08:37:40




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 Re: Attn: Jeff Jackson: Super M Hydraulics Part 3 in reply to Jeff Jackson, 01-13-2006 06:58:31  
Ah, okay. We can work with this.

Pressure from the live pump is going into the belly pump control valve, then is dumping straight into the belly tank.

One thing people keep telling you is to Tee the pressure line off. You can't do that. This is an open center system, which means the hydraulic fluid flows straight through the system unless you're pulling the lever on the valve. If you put a Tee in the line, you'll never get any pressure because there will always be an open path back to the reservoir.

Nope, you MUST connect it this way:

RESERVOIR OUT --> LIVE PUMP --> VALVES --> RESERVOIR IN

If you continue to use the belly reservoir, you can simply plumb your new spool valves into the pressure line that runs from the live pump back to the belly pump.

The tough part will be setting this up with an external reservoir AND allowing you to still use the belly valve...

I think you can do it if you run the suction line from the belly reservoir to the return port on the new tank, then run the suction port from the new tank to the live pump.

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Jeff Jackson

01-13-2006 09:10:36




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 Re: Attn: Jeff Jackson: Super M Hydraulics Part 3 in reply to Nat 2, 01-13-2006 08:37:40  
Wow....this is getting more complicated than I wanted it to be LOL I think my best bet is to add a 2.8 gal reservoir, a new 2 spool valve and just bypass the belly pump. I was trying to avoid buying a new valve since I already have a single spool but think I'll be better off in the long run spending the money, especially since you say a spool valve will operate single acting cylinders. I obviously won't be using the cultivator and loader at the same time so a 2 spool valve will fit my needs. A couple more questions???? What would be the best type 2 spool valve? Also, if I disconnect the live pump from the belly pump, will the belly pump still operate as a transmission driven pump or will it be completely inop? Thanks to everyone for their help. I learn more and more everyday from this site!

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Nat 2

01-13-2006 11:53:25




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 Re: Attn: Jeff Jackson: Super M Hydraulics Part 3 in reply to Jeff Jackson, 01-13-2006 09:10:36  
Was the tractor plumbed up like that when you got it? If so, then we can't be exactly sure of what was modified in your belly pump to get it to work the way it's working. It may just be that the belly pump drive was disconnected. All you'd have to do there is plug the holes and reconnect the drive.

Steven's right that a spool valve with float will work best with single-acting cylinders. You can use a basic double-acting valve, but for lowering the cultivators, you'll be forcing oil past the relief valve. It works, but it does lug the tractor down and puts stress on the pump.

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Jeff Jackson

01-13-2006 17:21:41




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 Re: Attn: Jeff Jackson: Super M Hydraulics Part 3 in reply to Nat 2, 01-13-2006 11:53:25  
The tractor was plumbed this way when I bought it. In retrospect I should have waited and found a 400 or 450 which would have better met my needs but when I bought my 2 row New Idea corn in excellent condition at a steal of a price I was offered the tractor at a price I just couldn"t pass up....plus it makes a good companion for my "47 H. Anyway, to continue the saga, what would be required to reconnect the belly pump drive if that is all that is needed? In the back of my head I would still like to keep the belly pump to use with the cultivator since it has a front and rear section. To add even more drama I would like to add a Saginaw 3 point hitch in the future.....or maybe someone has a 400 0r 450 to trade???? LOL

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Steven@AZ

01-13-2006 10:53:20




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 Re: Attn: Jeff Jackson: Super M Hydraulics Part 3 in reply to Jeff Jackson, 01-13-2006 09:10:36  
Just be sure that one of your spools has a float position. The float position works best with single action cylinders, in my experience.

Quite the can of worms we opened up, eh?



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RustyFarmall

01-13-2006 06:47:40




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 Re: Attn: Jeff Jackson: Super M Hydraulics Part 3 in reply to Nat 2, 01-13-2006 06:05:28  
One thing to consider, sometimes, when the belly pump was converted to reservoir use, the pump was gutted first.



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