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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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puffed once and the starter stuck.

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fisherman

01-09-2006 07:52:04




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A while back I posted a thread called 'Still Struggling'. Well, with all your advise- I deductively got down to a stuck starter. Prior to this I rewired the whole thing for a 6-volt (very clean connections with double O't wiring).Several helped me with this- Thanks again.

So,
I took the starter into a place in Lincoln where they replaced the drive and springs. Put the starter back on with a new 6-volt battery and it turn over a couple of times and then it stuck again after a puff of smoke.

So I’ve removed the starter and will take it back to them. Is there anything sticking out that I’ve forgotten or should look at after they fix the starter again?

I haven’t let myself get to frustrated yet because I am a rookie, but ready to move the tractor so I can get my boat out of the barn. It been warm in Nebraska and next week is gonna be 55-60.

Thanks again for your help

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Dave NE IA

01-09-2006 21:19:33




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to fisherman, 01-09-2006 07:52:04  
While this will not help your stuck problem, Just a suggestion when using 6 volt systems, do not overlook the fact that your starter makes its connection where it bolts on the tractor. I have fixed quite a few slugish starters by simply cleaning the face of the starter and the tractor surface area. Dave NE IA



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Bob M

01-09-2006 08:19:58




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to fisherman, 01-09-2006 07:52:04  
Sounds like you've got a badly worn ring gear - not unusual for a 50+ year old Farmall! Even a new starter drive will have a tendency to jam when run into a worn ring gear.

Pull the starter and take a peek the ring gear on the flywheel. You will likely find the ends of gear teeth facing the starter are rounded in two areas 180 deg apart.

The fix is to install a new ring gear. Replacing the gear itself is not a big job, and the part costs only about $40. But you'll need to split the tractor to do it.

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fisherman

01-09-2006 08:33:55




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to Bob M, 01-09-2006 08:19:58  
Your right, they are worn and that would be a really big job for me. Splitting the tractor is kind of overwhelming (never done that) and it has an F-10 loader hooked up to it. Are there any other options at least to get it running. Additional lubrication within the ring gear so it spins easier? Different starter (is that an option)

For me, I would probable drive it to a Case dealer or someone with a better setup who could fix it.

It has a hand crank but I think its stuck. My dad came over and tried the hand crank(he is a big german who milked cows for way to long)and couldn't get it to move. Scott

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Bob M

01-09-2006 09:34:43




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to fisherman, 01-09-2006 08:33:55  
You can try rocking it in 5th gear like the tractorvet suggests below. But it must go BACKWARD to release the starter - going forward will be impossible, and could jam the starter even harder.

The hand crank won't work since crankshaft must be turned backward to release the starter. (Rachet action by the crank drive only lets it turn the crankshaft forward...)

Loosening the bolts holding the starter several turns, then giving the starter a tap with a block of wood always works. (I always kept a 3/4" box wrench aboard my Super H for that purpose only).

Don't bother oiling the ring gear - it will have no effect. And if any oil gets past the ring gear and into the clutch you will suddenly have ANOTHER reason to split the tractor!

Some guys have had success "sharpening" rounded ring gear teeth with a file or Dremel tool. But it's kinda tedious and it's in a very tight space....will give you a good appreciation for the kinda work your denist does all day.

With my tractors I found a new starter drive tends to jam more often in a worn ring gear than does a worn drive. So sticking the old starter drive back on may help get the tractor started.

Also before hitting the starter, turn the crank 90 degrees (1/4 turn) from it's normal resting spot. This will present relatively unworn ring gear teeth to the starter and greatly reduce the chance of the starter jamming when you hit the button.

Good luck!

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fisherman

01-09-2006 11:44:28




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to Bob M, 01-09-2006 09:34:43  
Thanks Bob,

I went down to the shop over lunch and had them retest the starter, it was working fine he said.

One other thing, on my first starting try after rewiring with new starter and battery. There was pop on the top bolt of the igition button. I've also read about polorizing today, a little late. Would this have anything to do with the starter being stuck or did I just ruin another part because I didn't polorize (don't know how I guess) prior to stepping on the igition petal.

Tonight I will take a picture of the teeth, but I do know that they are worn.

Again, I did rewire the tractor as shown on your six volt diagrams (assuming I got it all correct).
Thanks for your help and that one other post I read about someone selling your work.... It is wrong out of principle and all my support to you. scott

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Nat 2

01-09-2006 12:46:49




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to fisherman, 01-09-2006 11:44:28  
Polarizing is for the GENERATOR, and has nothing to do with the starter. The starter will run, and will run the same direction no matter how the polarity is set up on the tractor. This is because the starter motor is all windings, and no magnets.

You've got a fat cable from the battery to the starter switch, and a fat cable from the starter switch to the starter. Plus, you have a ground from the battery to the tractor frame. That's the only cabling necessary for the starter system on a letter-series Farmall. The rest of the wiring is completely independent, and will have no effect on whether the starter works or not.

The pop you heard is probably due to the fact that the starter switch's internal contacts are burned, and it's not making perfect contact. It's just a spark arcing across the gap. Starter switches weren't the greatest way to handle that much current. You can't push the button fast enough to keep a spark from jumping the gap and burning the contacts.

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Bob M

01-09-2006 12:13:41




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to fisherman, 01-09-2006 11:44:28  
Scott - That "pop" from the ignition button probably was caused by a dirty or slightly loose connection there. (The pop 'n flash was simply the heavy current burning thru whatever dirt or oxide was impeding current flow - it won't hurt anything.) Polarizing - or not polarizing - has no effect whatsoever on the starter.

Now unless you reversed battery polarity or installed a new generator, technically you shouldn't need to repolarize the generator. However repolarizing cannot hurt, and it's simple to do:

With everything connected electrically and the engine off, take a scrap of wire and momentarily jumper the BAT and ARM terminals at the regulator. The instant you make contact - you may notice a small spark - you have successfully polarized!

Thanks also for your words of support on the issue involving the plagerizing Ebayer!

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the tractor vet

01-09-2006 08:44:15




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to fisherman, 01-09-2006 08:33:55  
Yep it is still stuck you can put it in 5ht gear and rock it and it just might pop out or just loosen the two bolts and wiggel the starter and it will or should snap back.



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the tractor vet

01-09-2006 08:16:58




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to fisherman, 01-09-2006 07:52:04  
I have not fallowed your posts but there is probably some rough spots on the flywheel that is causing the bendix to hang and not a starter problem . So before you take the starter back to the shop take a good look at the ring gear and if there are some burrs a good sharp file will help.And just what tractor are you working on .



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fisherman

01-09-2006 08:22:58




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to the tractor vet, 01-09-2006 08:16:58  
The tractor is a 49 M. I will try and take a picture tonight after I get home and post it. Thanks-Scott



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the tractor vet

01-09-2006 08:41:14




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to fisherman, 01-09-2006 08:22:58  
Like BOB said , if the file does not help then it is time to split and replace , Now one other thing are you using a high enough amp 6 volt or just one of them littel wimppy ones the more cranking amps the better . and if this old M has had a power pak as they called them ( step head Pistons) or someone went and put a high alt. kit in it and went with a higher comp. head like we did many years ago on one old M 6 volts are not enough when the weather got cold it was no more using the starter it was the chain start or coast it down the hill or the barn bridge as on a 80 degree day it started like it was ten below and you had better catch it the first time and this was on a big 6 volt dozer battery as there was no second chance.

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fisherman

01-09-2006 09:14:20




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to the tractor vet, 01-09-2006 08:41:14  
I bought the biggest 6-volt that would fit in the box 625cca and good wires with good connection.

I guess my plan of attack will be to have the starter checked again. I removed it. and take a picture of ring gear and post it for opinions and just go on from there.

Thanks again.



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the tractor vet

01-09-2006 11:41:32




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 Re: puffed once and the starter stuck. in reply to fisherman, 01-09-2006 09:14:20  
Yep thats one of them littel wimppy ones we use to use the ones that had over 950 CCA Made up a bigger battery box ok so it is not factory it got the job done.



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