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another super c electrical question

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ny bill

01-05-2006 18:25:51




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the super c's latest trick is, the alternator won't charge over 12v. its a brand new alternator, and on the test machine at napa, it will run 15v. on the tractor, it will jump up when the engine is started, then drop back to 12v. when i turn on the lights, my battery load tester shows a charge of 11.5v. it has a 10ga wire like bob m's diagram shows, and the belt is tight. ideas? thanks.




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El Toro

01-06-2006 05:12:18




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to ny bill, 01-05-2006 18:25:51  
You should check the electrolyte on each battery cell to see what that reading is. Lights should not require that much current. I think you need to double check all those wire connections for being clean and tight. I don't think that charging voltage is getting to the battery. Hal



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Brownie 45

01-06-2006 04:08:51




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to ny bill, 01-05-2006 18:25:51  
If you have a delco alternator, & it sounds like you do, of the 2 small push on spade lug terminals numbered 1&2, #2 is the terminal that senses battery voltage [should connect to the positive battery terminal or as close as possible]. A #16 or 18 wire is all that is needed. Make sure connections are clean. Lots of folks just use a short heavy wire between the output terminal & #2 terminal. This works, but doesn't sense true battery voltage at the battery especially if there is a high resistance at or near the battery/ starter area. I would check for clean tight connections throughout the whole system.

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KEB

01-05-2006 19:56:41




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to ny bill, 01-05-2006 18:25:51  
OK, if I'm reading this right you say it will charge to 15 volts when the lights are off, but drops to 12 volts when the lights are on. That means one of two things...first, there's a high resistance connection somewhere between the alternator & the point where the power for the lights is taken off, or second, the lights draw more current than the alternator is capable of producing.

If its the first case, the high resistance connection could be in the wiring, or it could be in the ground path between the alternator case & the tractor chassis. Another possibility is a bad ground connection on the battery itself, but that should manifest as a cranking problem as well.

Measure the output voltage of the alternator at the alternator with the lights on and the engine running. Take two measurements, one between the output terminal and the alternator case, and one between the output terminal and a good ground. If there's more than a few tenths of a volt difference, check the alternator mounts for a good electrical connection to the engine block.

If there's no appreciable difference at the alternator, make the same measurements between the positive battery terminal and the alternator case, and between the battery positive terminal and a good ground. If there's a difference here, you have either a bad ground somewhere or a bad connection in the charging circuit between the alternator and the battery.

In this case, measure the voltage between the positive battery terminal and the output terminal of the alternator. If there's more than a small voltage drop between the battery & the alternator, you have a bad connection in the charging circuit. If there's not, you have a bad ground somewhere.

If the output at the alternator is in fact only 12 volts, check the wiring of the regulator input (assuming its not a one-wire alternator). If the regulator is wired correctly, you probably need a bigger alternator or smaller lights.

Good luck, hope this helps.

Keith

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hassan fortney

01-05-2006 19:23:27




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to ny bill, 01-05-2006 18:25:51  
okay bud here is the deal first if any body tells you to leave the 6 volt diana-soar-ass genrator on it is a guy who like to hand crank his super c.
I have put lots of alternators on farmalls and other things 6 volt.
now is the alternator a G.M. ?
yes or no next my experince has been the best alternator is for a buick,or olds,or pontiac round 75-79 87amp or larger.
next the simple wiring connect batt to the b post on the alt. then the two wires coming off the two wire plugin the heavy wire goes to the batt post on the alternator the other wire hook a GE 194 marker light bulb, you need to get a socket for the bulb any other bulb and the alternator won't turn on. the bulb needs to be hooked with one leg to the alternator,the two wire plugin the other leg to the switched side of the igntion switch prerf the positive side of the igntion coil.
the alternator you select needs to a large engine from the 70's why you may ask?

these large engines ran slower so the alternator is built to cope with low rpm.

and the mid to late 70'and early 80's had internal regulators.

also the alternator from a 80-86 chevy pickup with a diesel they ran slow to.

the last thing the pulley size around 3 inches to spin that alternator.

hope this helps you and turn that hand crank in to a lighting rod.

and lastly the tractors I have done this to all are running well. just used my super H the other day out side temp -10 started right up like i have been baling with it all day during the summer. anyquestions please write me hassanford@hotmail.com

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hassan fortney

01-05-2006 19:44:45




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to hassan fortney, 01-05-2006 19:23:27  
also don't forget the resistor on the igntion coil.
or you will burn the points out.
unless you have breaker less igntion.



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Farmall NY

01-05-2006 18:59:11




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to ny bill, 01-05-2006 18:25:51  
I think Gene Bender should cool it a bit.....Just becasue you want your 6 volt doesn't mean everybody else should....There are many advantages to the 12v system.....This is one of the most helpful boards i have ever come across....Ignorance is not needed.



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hassan fortney

01-06-2006 14:37:37




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to Farmall NY, 01-05-2006 18:59:11  
I understand where gene bender is coming from and I don't mean any disrespect I deal with in my area guys that use these old farmalls for chores pulling wagons, speading manure and etc and most of these guys are not savy enough to tune a 6 volt regulator or a 13 year old knows enough to turn the the selector switch on the lights to get a proper charge. I my self do this for guys to simplfy headaches. and maintence is the big item most guys do just stop at the engine oil. My dad was a motor pool sargent in korea he pounded in to our heads to maint battery cables gear box housings grease ujoints etc i think I eaten more 80 90 than one guy should. and again i agree with gene bender a properly "maintaned" 6 volt system will bring years of troble free operation. but most guys don't have the time or the lost art of tuning a genrator.

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CNKS

01-06-2006 13:31:29




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to Farmall NY, 01-05-2006 18:59:11  
Farmall NY, Gene Bender is one of the smartest and helpful people on this board, thus he is NOT ignorant -- who are you, this your first post? Or do you change your name every time time you make a derogatory comment?



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gene bender

01-05-2006 19:55:12




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to Farmall NY, 01-05-2006 18:59:11  
Just like i said get the system in shape and it will work. Spend your money and have your problems. Its just fun reading all the problems.



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Nat 2

01-06-2006 05:22:29




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to gene bender, 01-05-2006 19:55:12  
Oh, you mean all the problems people have with worn brushes, sticky/malfunctioning regulators, manual cutouts that don't work, complicated wiring... That's better?

Seems to me like we have about the same number of generator/regulator/cutout questions as we do alternator questions on here.

It doesn't matter either way. Someone who doesn't know how to follow a schematic is going to screw it up, whether it's an alternator or a generator & regulator. If they're willing to take a systematic and logical approach to figuring it out, who cares? Save your contempt for the ones who just want you to diagnose their screwed-up wiring harness over the Internet and tell them what's wrong and how to fix it.

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El Toro

01-06-2006 07:14:01




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to Nat 2, 01-06-2006 05:22:29  
Hi Nat, Well put, Hal



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El Toro

01-05-2006 18:49:15




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to ny bill, 01-05-2006 18:25:51  
Which regulator is used with this alternator?
Was this used when NAPA tested it? Hal



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ny bill

01-05-2006 19:01:13




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to El Toro, 01-05-2006 18:49:15  
the alternator has an internal regulator. the system is wired as #6 of bob m's diagrams.



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Nat 2

01-06-2006 04:58:53




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to ny bill, 01-05-2006 19:01:13  
You THINK it's wired the same as Bob M's #6 diagram, but it really isn't. That's my suspicion. Everybody makes mistakes, especially if they're not electricians.

Problem is, you've certainly been over the wiring so many times now that you'll be blind to any mistakes you made. "Yup yup, I checked that a dozen times before. It's right..." You know what I mean. Might not be a bad idea to get a buddy to double-check your work.

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Hermit

01-05-2006 18:47:57




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to ny bill, 01-05-2006 18:25:51  
Try a different battery.



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gene bender

01-05-2006 18:47:37




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to ny bill, 01-05-2006 18:25:51  
I find these topics funny as just why dont you just keep it original then you wont have all these silly problems. Everyday someone is on this site trying to make a charging system work instead of just going back to what it was when new. These tractor started all the time and were used everyday thats how we are here today. You dont put 24v in your car when it dont start.



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captaink

01-06-2006 08:36:18




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to gene bender, 01-05-2006 18:47:37  
For a couple reasons. I like a radio on some of my tractors, and a power point for my cell phone charger. They don't work on 6-volt. I also like the brighter 12 volt lights (lake haolgen) for night time driving.

I have converted a B, C, M, 560 (12 volt gen to 12-volt alt), 51 GMC truck and 52 GMC pickup to 12 volt, not to mention several others for neighbors. I rarely if EVER have a problem with any of them not working properly once installed. I couldn't say that for the old genny/cutout/regulator/6-volt systems I was replacing.

Nothing wrong with keeping it original if that is what your goal is. There is also nothing wrong with keeping up with technology to make things more useable.

MY 2 cents.

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old

01-05-2006 18:37:34




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to ny bill, 01-05-2006 18:25:51  
Alternators like RPMs at low RPMs they don't charge as well as at higher RPMs. You may not be running your engine fast enough



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ny bill

01-05-2006 18:42:50




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to old, 01-05-2006 18:37:34  
i tried that too. it made no difference low vs high rpm's, still charged 12v.



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old

01-05-2006 18:51:26




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 Re: another super c electrical question in reply to ny bill, 01-05-2006 18:42:50  
In that case I would need to know more about how its wired and what type of alternator it has to be able to help.



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