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B will not start

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JT

12-28-2005 16:15:13




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I have finally got this thing in time, mechanically. Now the rotor will not line up with #1 to try to time mag to engine. This will only go 2 ways,so it cannot be rocket science. When I try to start it, all it does is explode in the exhaust manifold. I am at my wits end, any advise from anyone???? I am going to get a mag book out and see if mag may be out of time internally. The closest I can get the rotor is just a little past cylinder #2, cannot get it to time to # 1 at all. The engine is at DC on Flywheel, lined up with pointer, so I feel I am at TDC on #1 cylinder when doing all this. Any ides??? Just had front of tractor off to make sure was in time mechanically.

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JT

12-29-2005 06:16:45




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-28-2005 16:15:13  
Hey, guys, thanks for the input and ideas. As most of you guys might now, I own a Lawn & garden sales and service center and thought I could work on and figure out anything when it comes to gas engine. I guess this knd of thing is what keeps you grounded and not so cocky when it come to mechanical work. Thanks again for the help and input.
Jim



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captaink

12-29-2005 07:39:13




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT , 12-29-2005 06:16:45  
Double check the wires in the cap and make sure they are correct. It sounds like at least one cylinder is firing with the exhaust valve part way open.

(Youngest son changed plugs this weekend and about blew the muffler apart cause the wires were on wrong. Yup, you guessed it, learning opportunity.)



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El Toro

12-29-2005 05:18:47




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-28-2005 16:15:13  
Make that about 90 degrees. Hal



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El Toro

12-29-2005 05:15:48




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-28-2005 16:15:13  
When you're on No2 that's about 180 degrees off.
You can tell when you're on the compression stroke when pressure is felt against your thumb.
Look to see if both valves are closed on No1 cylinder and that will tell you if you're at TDC.
Hal



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JT

12-29-2005 06:12:33




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 Re: B will not start in reply to El Toro, 12-29-2005 05:15:48  
Hal,
As usuall, good info, thank you. When I put it at TDC, took out #1 plug, had valve cover off, watched valves cycle, when intake valve closed, put finger in plug hole, turned over with crank until felt air blowing out around finger, put screwdrive in plug hole, followed piston to top of trvel, got under tractor found DC on flywheel, aligned with pointer. That is why I feel it is on TDC #1 plug. Need to take mag off and check internal mag timing and see if that is problem. That is the only thing it can be, there is nothing else. Again, thank you for the ideas and input.
Jim

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El Toro

12-29-2005 06:34:41




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-29-2005 06:12:33  
That exhaust valve should be closed too when No1 piston is at TDC. In one of your other postings you said the engine made a popping sound when you cranked it. That sound's like your mag isn't firing when No1 piston is at TDC. Can you hear the impulse coupling snapping? Let us know what you find. Hal



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JT

12-29-2005 13:53:49




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 Re: B will not start in reply to El Toro, 12-29-2005 06:34:41  
Hal,
Well, here goes, We have done everything mechanical to make this little monster run. engine is in time,took mag apart,it is in time. After another hour of problems, we moved the wires in the cap 90 degrees, put a 12 volt jump pack on it, it started, it ran after I don't know how long, but it started and ran. Now the part I cannot understand, why did I have to put everything 90 degrees backward to make this thing run??? Any other ideas?? Jim

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El Toro

12-29-2005 17:41:54




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-29-2005 13:53:49  
Hi Jim, I would like to see how you place the plug wires on the cap with No1 plug being near the radiator. You can use a sketch such as this when facing the cap on the mag. Hal

CW
2-1
4-3



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JT

12-30-2005 13:02:28




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 Re: B will not start in reply to El Toro, 12-29-2005 17:41:54  
Right now the wires are as follows:
CW
1-3
2-4
And at that it runs excellant, start at the 2nd turn of starter. When the engine is at TDC, the rotor is top left, looking at it from the front of the distributor. Was IH tollerances so sloppy to allow these kind of things to happen? Thanks for all your input. I have been playing some more this morning and AM, it will even start with the crank, so all is in time, just not physically correct.????? ?????
Jim

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El Toro

12-30-2005 14:44:12




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-30-2005 13:02:28  
Hi Jim, I noticed No1 plug wire is where No2
should be. I would sure like to know how this happened. Hal



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JT

12-30-2005 15:02:40




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 Re: B will not start in reply to El Toro, 12-30-2005 14:44:12  
Hal,
that is what puzzles me. Why?? The tractor is in time, single dot on cam to single dot on crank, double dot on cam to double dot on gov gear,The mag is timed inside, the chamfered gear is on the "R", so that should be correct, the engine is set at #1 TDC, and the mag can only go in two ways, one correct, the other 180 out. I guess my best bet is to leave well enough alone, the tractor starts and runs good, starts easier than any other my M or H, so I am happy about that, but if something is not correct, it will bug me unitl I finally give in or find out why it is like that. Oh, well, I am out of town until Monday, so it will give me something to think about all weekend. You have a safe, happy New Year, and thank you for all your help, you have reassured me I am not 100% totally crazy, just 75%. :>)
Jim

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El Toro

01-06-2006 10:34:08




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-30-2005 15:02:40  
Hi Jim, I think I know why you had to reposition the plug wires. I think you were on N02 piston
when it was at TDC instead of No1. An easy way to check when you get time is to pull No1 plug and bring it up to TDC on the compression stroke. Make sure you feel that compression against your thumb when doing this.

I would bet your rotor is pointing to N02 plug position in your distributor. Hal

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El Toro

12-30-2005 16:22:10




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-30-2005 15:02:40  
If you ever find out let me know. If you have a timing lite you should look for that timing mark on the flywheel. Keep on running it. Hal



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JT

01-01-2006 12:25:46




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 Re: B will not start in reply to El Toro, 12-30-2005 16:22:10  
Hal,
I am going to check it with a timing light the first of the week. I lost the little gov gear bearing when I dissaaambled it, so I am waiting on that to come in before I run it for very long, plud no radiator on it. Bearing will be here wednes/thursday. But, I am going to set final timing with a light, and run it. If I had a clue on how to put pictures on here, I would do that, but I am not that smart. Again, thanks for all your help.
Jim

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El Toro

12-29-2005 16:07:00




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-29-2005 13:53:49  
Glad to hear you have it running. If you ever get the time you should bring No1 piston up on the compression stroke again to TDC. Then see where that rotor is pointing.

You can use No4 piston when it's at TDC, but the wires need to be changed. You probably saw the
DC1-4 stamped on the flywheel. Your weather must be better than here in MD. It's been raining
and not very warm. Some are calling for snow or rain for Saturday. Have a Happy New Year, Hal

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Farmer Bob

12-28-2005 22:15:48




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-28-2005 16:15:13  
third party image

Just ensure that the camphored or angled off tooth of the pinion is lined up with the "R" on the distributor spindle for your B. You have a clockwise or "Righthand" rotating mag so that's why you align the "R". If it was a counter-clockwise rotating mag it would be lined up the "L" like in the picture.

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JT

12-29-2005 06:01:53




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 Re: B will not start in reply to Farmer Bob, 12-28-2005 22:15:48  
Bob,
Thank you for the info, I was not sure if I neede to align the L or R, I have not taken it apart to see what one it is. I had a guy that has worked on IH mags for almost 50 years check mag out and make sure it was correct, but he told my dad it could be a clockwise or couterclockwise, could need to be changed. I appreciate your input, now time to go see if the "beast" will breath again. Will let you know how it goes.
Jim

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old

12-28-2005 19:13:52




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-28-2005 16:15:13  
Just a guess here but since you said MAG. Do you here the impulse working when you turn it over. If you don't that could be your problem.



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JT

12-29-2005 06:19:39




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 Re: B will not start in reply to old, 12-28-2005 19:13:52  
Old,
Yeah the impulse is working. My dad asked me the same thing, had to go back and check that. Thanks for the input, though. Sometimes you are looking so deep for a problem, you tend to overlook the simple things.
Jim



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old

12-29-2005 09:01:11




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-29-2005 06:19:39  
Yep been there done that before. Not to long ago I had an engine that I couldn't get spark from and worked for hours tring to figure it out. Gave up and then went out the next day and just for the heck of it tried to start it and it started right up and has ever since. I never have figured out why it didn't have spark that day.



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El Toro

12-28-2005 18:37:11




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-28-2005 16:15:13  
You need to check No1 piston at TDC on the compression stroke again. Then look where the rotor is pointing. Should be at No1. Both valves will be closed when No1 piston is at TDC on the compression stroke.

Check your wires on the cap, if rotor rotates CW
the wires should be installed like this: Hal
2-1
4-3
CCW
1-2
3-4



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Brownie 45

12-28-2005 18:03:10




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-28-2005 16:15:13  
If everything is timed correctly[ #1 on tdc ] and you can't get the rotor to align with #1 plug wire on the distributor cap, the gears which run the rotor[ as mentioned on one of the other replies] is possibly the problem. We had an A which had this very problem , and retiming the gears solved the problem. WE could never figure how the gears got out of time, but they did.



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Yugrotcart

12-28-2005 16:50:37




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-28-2005 16:15:13  
Are the timing marks on the rotor gear aligned? ( under the small cover behind the rotor)



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Paul Shuler

12-28-2005 16:31:28




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 Re: B will not start in reply to JT, 12-28-2005 16:15:13  
Are you at TDC on compression stroke?



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