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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Live Power on M

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Kernelburner

12-21-2005 04:14:53




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Thinking of buying a M to make hay with. Got a 24t baler with a 1209 Mo-Co. Thinking I need a machine with live power. Does anyone know what year did the M start with live power??




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Hayfarmer

12-21-2005 19:15:58




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 Re: Live Power on M in reply to Kernelburner, 12-21-2005 04:14:53  
The live power really helps with the baler but I have run one without it also. One of the best tractors I used on a baler was my old JD G because it had the torque to keep the baler running steady. I put the tractor in neutral and start the baler flywheel moving, then clutch and shift into gear, the the overrunning clutch on the baler it keeps going. I now use a SMTA on a baler, the live PTO is nice and also the TA when you hit a heavy spot you can shift down quickly. it also worked good on a Heston haybine. I would think the M has plenty of power for the 24T as it is a small baler.

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Kernelburner

12-21-2005 11:12:24




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 Re: Live Power on M in reply to Kernelburner, 12-21-2005 04:14:53  
Thanks for the great information!! I hate to spend a gob of money on a tractor I'll only use 4 times a year. These M's seem like a right priced tractor and even the 400's are still reasonable. This is my 1st season bailing my own field...and ya just never know...maybe my last.. But Me and Ma are gonna giver her a try..Thank's again. Kernelburner



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Ksfarmmer

12-21-2005 06:45:27




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 Re: Live Power on M in reply to Kernelburner, 12-21-2005 04:14:53  
When I was growing up we used an M to bale with and I never remember any problems using it. We did have an M&W hand clutch as an add on that I'm sure may have helped if we needed to stop or slow down without stopping the PTO. I really don't remember that as being necessary. I'm sure an M would do a fine job baling as Andy can attest. On the other hand, I remember when we got our 560 it was a much better mower and baler tractor.

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Andy Martin

12-21-2005 05:40:58




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 Re: Live Power on M in reply to Kernelburner, 12-21-2005 04:14:53  
I'm thinking you don't need live power.

I have an M with an M&W live power setup but use a straight M on both a JD 348 square baler and Vermeer 504 Super G round baler.

I pull a NH 479 9 ft Haybine and used to use a 495 (12 ft) very successfully. The old M will pull the Haybine through 8 ft haygrazer. We usually mow in 4th, wide open.

The 348 will take a lot of hay, and make tight bales (wire tie) and the M never get's overloaded. We make 3 tons to the acre in bermuda grass in one cutting. That's bales about every 50 ft with a 9 ft cut. It is hard to negotiate a pickup between them.

If you watch what you are doing, baling in 3rd gear, when you start to get the baler loaded, gently but quickly move the shift lever to neutral and right on in to 2nd between strokes of the baler not using the clutch. My dad told me how to do this, but wasn't around to show me. It is not hard, and I never grind gears. When you get used to the equipment, you can shift back to 3rd in a flash by hitting the clutch just after the baler goes overcenter and get the shift done before the baler gets loaded up on the next stroke. I do this at full speed.

We almost never bale in 4th gear because the ground is usually too rough on the baler. When we are baling in 4th, throttled back because of light hay, it's pretty easy to get the tractor in neutral to pick up any heavy spots, then clutch and get back in 3rd or 4th to keep baling. It's just not worth $2,000 to me to never have to stop in the field. You'll pay a $2,000 premium for live PTO. We can square bale a field with our old iron about as fast as the guys with $40,000 in modern lightweight aluminum and sheet metal tractors.

The only shortcoming of baling with the M's is that we could use a few more gears sometimes, but the cost, and higher maintenance, of more modern equipment does not offset the little advantage in speed, at least for me.

If you get an MTA, or a 400 (I have both but don't use them much) you get more gears, and live PTO, and if you do a lot of work you are fixing the PTO clutches and TA, spending money.

The only time I replace the clutch in an M is after I hire a kid to run one. It only takes a couple of hours to swap it out after you get proficient. That's why I don't like the Super M as much, you have to split the tractor to pull the pressure plate, and an M clutch will last just fine (with modern clutch facings) behind an engine with a Super M kit.

Have fun but remember to work safely enough your widow dosen't have to sell your equipment before you are done with it. Mowers, balers, PTO's, rolling tractors and highway traffic will kill you when you least expect it.

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Nat

12-21-2005 05:26:20




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 Re: Live Power on M in reply to Kernelburner, 12-21-2005 04:14:53  
Never. Ms simply did not have live power take off, ever. It wasn't until the Super MTA in 1954 that IH introduced live PTO. Be prepared to pay through the nose, though, because Super MTAs are HOOOOO OOOOO OT on the market right now. Where you can still pick up a plain old M in working condition for $1500, you'll pay $3500-$7000 for a Super MTA.

A 400 or 450 is essentially the same tractor, with TA and live PTO. These can be found for around $2500-$3000 in working condition.

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Allan in NE

12-21-2005 05:56:52




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 Re: Live Power on M in reply to Nat, 12-21-2005 05:26:20  
Absolutely!

Grab a 400 or a 560.

Allan



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dhermesc

12-21-2005 07:47:51




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 Re: Live Power on M in reply to Allan in NE, 12-21-2005 05:56:52  
I agree, the 400s/450s can be had cheaper and have a little more power. Or you could move down a notch and buy a 300/350, they have as much power as the early Ms (less weight though) and get much better fuel economy while offering live PTO and live hydraulics. On a good day you can pick a decent one up for $1600-$2500.



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MFEMF

12-21-2005 05:03:13




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 Re: Live Power on M in reply to Kernelburner, 12-21-2005 04:14:53  
If I were you I would look to buy a MTA rather than a straight M. This will give you live hydraulics, the TA and the live PTO. I think it was 53 or 54.



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Allan in NE

12-21-2005 05:02:57




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 Re: Live Power on M in reply to Kernelburner, 12-21-2005 04:14:53  
Kernel,

Ms didn't have live power.

Allan



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