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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse??

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Wayne Rimathe

12-20-2005 04:39:23




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My boys 656 sticks in reverse at times when he has been moving snow this winter. Locks up the transmission. He get it out after some moving the shift lever around. Thought I would ask you guys. Do you think it is just a linkage adjustment?? Thanks




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Allan in NE

12-20-2005 05:19:50




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Wayne Rimathe, 12-20-2005 04:39:23  
Wayne,

It has peeled a roll pin either at the shift lever or the right side shift rail fork.

If you take off the cowling, battery cover, battery and tray and then aggresively work that shifter in low/reverse and you'll be able to see which one is not moving right, unless it is that joker down inside the box, in which case, you've got to pull the floorboard and lift the cover.

I'm bettin' it is the top one right under the cowl.

Could be a bad fork also, but chances are more towards the roll pins.

Allan

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Hugh MacKay

12-20-2005 05:12:07




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Wayne Rimathe, 12-20-2005 04:39:23  
Wayne: I have to agree with Steven, try the TA lever in low if equiped with TA. If shifting TA to low helps that nails it for you. These must be adjusted by the book and exactly as worded, close doesn't count even a little bit.

The linkage does require lubrication from time to time, but that usually causes more problems with side to side movement of shift lever rather than in-out of a particular gear.

Most of these required replacment parts in the linkage at some point, usually around 5,000 hours, more often if tractor did a lot of loader work or other similar shuttle work. A lot depends on how many times one has shifted gears since tractor was new. There is huge difference between the tractor that pulls implements all day compared with one doing loader work all day. This wear in the parts usually doesn't create shifting problems in the early stages, just sloppy and loosness on the lever, later on falling apart inside the slide under dash. If the lever is tight, I wouldn't worry about that one.

My gut feeling, based on what you have told us is clutch and TA adjustment.

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Steven@AZ

12-20-2005 06:10:17




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-20-2005 05:12:07  
TA adjustment is always the first and easiest thing to diagnose and repair...

Tell me about loader work destroying shift linkage! Our 1256 had 6000 hours on it when we bought it, shifted like new because it was all field work, original clutch and TA in good condition. We put a loader on it and within 500 hours it was sloppy shifting, 1000 hours and the TA was out (mainly from improper shifting), and we have since had the cover off the high-low twice to put in a new fork, springs, and detent ball. Has around 7700 hours on it now and makes a nice size loader for our operation. Dad put a loader on the 2590 Case this fall and uses the 1256 more because it's just handier.

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Hugh MacKay

12-20-2005 07:33:12




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Steven@AZ, 12-20-2005 06:10:17  
Steven: Just goes back to my old theory, Farmall was probably the best drawbar, 3 point or PTO tractor we ever knew. They were however not the best loader tractor. In my opinion Versatile later Ford NH were the only ones that came close with that bi directional articulated outfit. I always said if you were going to install a loader, the axle next the the bucket may as well be the heavy one and that engine may as well be the counterweight. Just never believed in hanging a loader out over a king pin and steering axle, not even if it's 4 wheel drive. Look at the guys that put loaders on 100 hp conventional 4x4 tractors, they achieved nothing more than beat the crap out of the lighter drive axle.

Trucking industry did the same trick, bureaucrats decided we could haul the same axle weight on steering front axles with those big wide tires, as we did on dual rear wheel axles. This cost the users more damn expence than most care to remember. To start with the dual on rear gave you some insurance as it's very unlikely both tires would blow at same time. Having that much weight on steering axles has given lots of operators nightmares they don't care to remember. My point is, just because some design engineer sitting behind a desk designed it, don't mean it was practical or safe.

My opinion, about the only engineering that ever went into a loader on a conventional farm tractor, be it 2 or 4 wheel drive was customer demand. And furthermore the customers drove that to the point they destroyed the very best field work farm tractor ever, the American built row crop.

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Steven@AZ

12-20-2005 09:16:36




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-20-2005 07:33:12  
Don't disagree with you at all.

But overworking the front end of a row-crop tractor beat the heck out of a pitchfork for my Grandpa, and my Dad...



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Allan in NE

12-20-2005 06:21:10




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Steven@AZ, 12-20-2005 06:10:17  
And,

Don't forget how they tear up the front ends.

I just hate that part, but whatta gonna do? At 61 years of age, I just have trouble lifting those 1400 pound bales anymore. :>)

Allan



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Steven@AZ

12-20-2005 06:30:54




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Allan in NE, 12-20-2005 06:21:10  
LOL! Gee, even at 24 I have some trouble lifting those 1400# bales!

The front end on our 1256 is probably the worst part of it, tie rod ends only last a couple of years, both spindles have been broken, have broken a hub, finally welded gussets and braces on it, then it broke the casting where the pivot pin goes through the big pipe! These old tractors just weren't designed for that kind of abuse, but they take it anyway for the most part.

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Allan in NE

12-20-2005 05:40:10




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-20-2005 05:12:07  
Possibly,

But, you'd think that if the clutch adjustment were the main culprit that it would be hard shifting, binding and difficult to get into and out of all gears, not just reverse.

Dunno,

Allan



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Hugh MacKay

12-20-2005 05:56:26




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Allan in NE, 12-20-2005 05:40:10  
Allan: You have a good point. It could be something is bent on the shifting linkage affecting only reverse. I guess what sent me in the direction I went, he didn't say it was hard to get in reverse, just out of reverse. Then you also have the factor of what one man calls hard to move, yet another will call it a piece of cake. I guess the big question is relative to what? I'm first curious to see his responce on shifting TA to low.

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Allan in NE

12-20-2005 06:10:40




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-20-2005 05:56:26  
Yepper,

Could all be in the description of the difficulity too.

Perhaps it is happening in all gears and he is only noticing it in reverse 'cause that is where he is most of the time.

Hard to diagnose over the phone. :>)

Allan



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Nat

12-20-2005 04:54:59




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Wayne Rimathe, 12-20-2005 04:39:23  
She's just plain worn to the point where the shifter is slipping out of the shifter forks in the transmission, leaving the tractor stuck in reverse.

If it were an older tractor, the solution would generally involve pulling the shift lever and building up that little ball that fits into the shift forks. But, with a 656... Dunno how you'd go about it.

There is also the possibility that there's simply enough slop in the linkages going from the shift lever to the transmission that it's allowing you to slip the lever into another gear without actually taking the tractor out of reverse.

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Steven@AZ

12-20-2005 04:46:56




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 Re: Reasons a 656 sticks in reverse?? in reply to Wayne Rimathe, 12-20-2005 04:39:23  
Does it have TA? If it does, try pulling the TA lever into low range and see if it will come out of gear more easily. If it does you need linkage adjustment of the clutch and TA.

Also, have you lubed the shift linkage lately? I know on our 544 it will get sticky when it's time for some more grease/oil/wd40...



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