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Farmland

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AA

12-12-2005 06:08:38




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Appreciate earlier thoughts on post. Have one sixth interest in property along with 5 other cousins. Four of us do not want to sell or want to see property divided. Two wish to sell but buying them out is not option cost prohibitive. Can the two who want to sell force a division? Or force the four of us to sell as in absolute auction. Bottom line no one has clear title only one sixth interest and four of us do not want to see divided or sold in any shape form fashion want it to stay together as whole. Can this be accomplished even if other two wish otherwise. Or would they be able to force property to be divided receive there one sixth share along with clear title to that share and then sell it even if the other four opposed division? I know they could sell there one sixth share but no outside party interested cause no clear title. Bottom line can they force a division or sell if the other four are opposed? What a Mess

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AA

12-13-2005 05:13:38




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 Re: Farmland in reply to AA, 12-12-2005 06:08:38  
Bill you about have picture but I will add this. Should have been clearer and stated four who live nearby kinda defer to me when it comes to decisions. Property is ideal for development therefore cost probibitive to buy from farm aspect farm land would never pay for itself. Def in 20 years think it will be worth lot more. Two cousins out of state want sell. Don't live near and have little connection to land. Two cousins who live on place want it to stay like it is and in family hands. My sibling and I who live nearby desire same. If it divided know 2 out of state would sell there one sixth. Easy solution is leave like it is continue sending them there share of rent after taxes. Could the two out of state force division on rest of us even if we did not want that? And if so how? Would court have to appoint commissioners to divide with each agreeing to abide by there findings beforehand? Four of us do not wish to sell or divide. Like to just leave like is then when Im gone leave my one sixth part and let someone else worry about... Thanks again like said Bill gave good thoughts.

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jodee

12-12-2005 16:11:42




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 Re: Farmland in reply to AA, 12-12-2005 06:08:38  
sound like you need to listen to these jail house lawers on this form.



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Al in Virginia

12-12-2005 12:04:57




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 Re: Farmland in reply to AA, 12-12-2005 06:08:38  
Perhaps they would sell and hold mortgage for property.



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AA

12-12-2005 11:10:57




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 Re: Farmland in reply to AA, 12-12-2005 06:08:38  
Appreciate thoughts Bill- Wish whole situation was different but not. This is homeplace property. Other farms stayed in my immediate families control which is another story. Fact is two cousins live on place. Sibling and I do not. two cousins out of state who want to sell. Four of us not opposed to other two having what due. Basically I make sure place looked after tended, pay property taxes from rent and send them there share after taxes. Other four always look to me for whatever reason. Fact is think grandfather made mistake in leaving his estate like this. Im just thankful my family retained immediate control over other holdings. Four of us just do not want to be forced to break place apart then have other two sell there one sixth share. Since no clear title no one outside interested in buying the other two share and it is cost prohibitive for us to buy simply can't do. Can they force a ivision on rest of us? Personally like to see stay as is till I've kicked bucket Like said Mess.

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Bill in NC

12-12-2005 12:00:08




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 Re: Farmland in reply to AA, 12-12-2005 11:10:57  
AA, thanks for sharing that information. So what you are saying is: two cousins living on property and you and your brother/
sister live elsewhere. You have been the administrator/business manager for the property. You also mention that everyone come to you for decisions. It sounds like you already have a good relationship with everyone involved. It sounds like you have four folks good to go and just need a plan for buying out the other two. It also sounds like the four of you don't want to either pull cash out of the pocket or go into debt to do the buy out. Questions: Does the property turn a worthwhile positive cash flow? Does the property have timber that can be harvested? Is the property located in the path of progress (i.e. near a city so that it will have future sell out value for a sub-division or other commercial development)? If it has harvestable timber, you may be able to pay a significant part of the buy-out price. If it has appreciable cash flow or in the path of progress, maybe y'all incorporate the farm and the six of you hold on for a bigger reward down the road. Maybe you incorporate anyway and have the corporation buy out the two cousins at some point in the future. Just some thoughts to consider.
Bill

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Stan(PA)

12-12-2005 10:30:06




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 Re: Farmland in reply to AA, 12-12-2005 06:08:38  
There is no doubt that you need to talk to a lawyer. The "common sense" answer would appear to be, "divide the property and let each individual do as he pleases with his rightful share". You feel that the others have no right to divide, and no right to sell. It sounds like they feel you have a right to keep your rightful share, but they have the right to do as they wish with theirs. Emotionally, you want it kept together. Morally, and probably legally, you cannot force your will on the others. Just the way it appears to me, certainly no offence meant ....Stan

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Nebraska Cowman

12-12-2005 09:27:44




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 Re: Farmland in reply to AA, 12-12-2005 06:08:38  
If it is split 6 ways it's allready divided, Might as well face it. And if 2/3 can't afford to buy out 1/3 I don't know if I'd want an interest in it anyway. I'd bail out if I were you.



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Janicholson

12-12-2005 06:30:02




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 Re: Farmland in reply to AA, 12-12-2005 06:08:38  
As stated in the earlier replies, the only answer is from a qualified lawyer, with knowledge of that issue, and laws in that state.
Find a proactive external lawyer with no possible ties to the area. (I'd go 30 miles to a different town/city and use the Barr Association for advice, not the phone book. The keys are: proactive and crisp knowledge.
JimN



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El Toro

12-12-2005 06:20:07




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 Re: Farmland in reply to AA, 12-12-2005 06:08:38  
You need to talk to a good lawyer that is familiar with this kind of case. See if you have
a lawyer referral service. Explain the situation to them and they can put you in touch
with a lawyer that handles this kind of case. Whose name is on the deed? All six or just one of you? If there's nothing in writing it's going to be a lawyer's nightmare. Hal



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Allan in NE

12-12-2005 06:12:53




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 Re: Farmland in reply to AA, 12-12-2005 06:08:38  
Dunno,

Probably up to local and state laws, but my neighbor just went thru this.

His sister forced him to sell 1100 acres because he could not afford to buy her out.

Allan



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Bill in NC

12-12-2005 09:23:03




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 Re: Farmland in reply to Allan in NE, 12-12-2005 06:12:53  
Thoughts to ponder all relating to personality types/profiles:
1) In estate situations, there will be folks who want to tie things up, get their money and get on with the rest of their organized schedule-centric life. My baby sister just wanted to get it done and get on with her life. As a result, my other sister and I agreed to sell the home place, the farm equipment as well as the tree farm even though we knew the tree farm would be worth more within ten years because of its proximity to Raleigh. We chose family unity over logic.

2) Likewise, the folks that can't make a decision (like me) are naturally pre-disposed to optimizing things. Just as the schedule nuts want to wrap up the estate taxes, sell the property and get on with life, the foot-draggers are trying to make a decision and just keep seeing more and more stuff to consider in making their decision. What gets these folks in single file and moving towards getting lunch is setting a "drop-dead" firm time date for wrapping up matters.

3) You need to first know what YOU want and then figuratively put yourself into the shoes of each person to see what they want.
4) Listen, Listen, LISTEN!! Try to reduce the amount of talking you do. It is not about you. It is about them. Start off the listening process by saying something like: "I am prepared to discuss settling this property ownership situation, but would like to hear your thoughts on the issue". Then be quiet and write down everything they say. After they had stated their initial thoughts, repeat the thoughts back to them and ask them if you got it right. In nearly every case, they will further flesh out their initial thoughts and will also give you additional thoughts/
considerations/issues to consider.

Their thoughts are especially important to you because they are giving you their reasons for what they want to do. In sales, we say they are giving us everything we need to know for satisfying their needs and for closing the deal. By using this "following (listening) and reflecting (responding) process, you give everyone the best possible shot at putting together a mutally beneficial arrangement.

I've used this method many times to sell lots of equipment and to not waste my (or my customer's) time. Lawyers are necessary, but even F. Lee Bailey cannot do what a good Socratic listening/
responding session can do for six cousins. You will likely find that your cousins have all sorts of crosses they are bearing ranging from hating to see Grandad's farm changed to having a spouse that's driving them nuts for money to remodel a kitchen. Who knows?! You willl never know until you let them speak while you listen.

Last point, ALWAYS WRITE DOWN what they say!!! It shows you care a great deal about their thoughts, concerns and emotions. Secondly, it gives you an accurate means to reflect back their comments which leads to yet more information coming back to you. Be friendly and non-judgemental. If there is a deal to be made, you have established the best possible environment for getting everyone on the same page.

Good Luck
Bill

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Bill in NC

12-12-2005 09:40:13




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 Re: Farmland in reply to Bill in NC, 12-12-2005 09:23:03  
More points:
Meet each cousin separately so you can have one-on-one listening sessions. There are too many egos and agendas with six people. Take the time to meet or call each person. Get their thoughts. Afterwards you can move the process forward by putting together a Word document where you pull together comments and issues each person raised. I would not put their names with the comments as that waves a red flag for singling folks out for an argument. You should also incorporate Excel type information such as how much it is going to cost to pay property taxes, projected rental income, value of timber, maintenance costs, etc. This gives facts to address and serves to get everyone focused on issues.

The big thing to recognize is that you folks are genetically related and probably share characteristics. If granddad and grandmother were big time introverts, chances are four out of the six cousins are introverts, too and tend to sit back not giving their true thoughts in group discussions. On the other hand, if your folks are objective (non-emotional) thinkers, it can be disruptive to have one cousin go on an emotional trip during the meeting. Conversely, if the cousins are emotional types and you come in like an engineering department manager with cool logic everytime they bring up emotionally charged issues, they are going to hate you with a passion and will throw a wooden shoe into the works (the origins for the word sabotage - Dutch workers threw their wooden shoes (sabots) into manufacturing machinery to force a shut-down).

Hope this salesman's viewpoint helps you get your farm situation figured out to your satisfaction. As you probably can tell, I just love selling and negotiating situations now that I know how to hear other folks issues.
Bill

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