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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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red hot resistor--update

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alannpa

11-30-2005 03:46:10




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Well, I took the genny and cutout off and took them to a specialty shop. Man said something wrong here. Dead short somewhere. I said fix it. Let you know what I can. Thanks for all the help. Alan




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Bob M

11-30-2005 05:22:46




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 Re: red hot resistor--update in reply to alannpa, 11-30-2005 03:46:10  
Indeed!

Please post back what the genny shop guy finds. Curious minds want to know!!



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John T

11-30-2005 04:42:05




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 Re: red hot resistor--update in reply to alannpa, 11-30-2005 03:46:10  
Thanks Alan, let us know what they find. If I recall correctly myself n Bob M were concerend with a short (I was thinking of a Field winding short to case) and Jim was thinking about a short also, a Field winding to winding short, so maybe there was indeed a "short" somewhere lol. If the genny were shorted somewhere so bad it didnt put out a voltage higher then the battery, the cutout relay shouldnt have ever latched in whereby the battery could supply heavy current into the gennys Field and eventually the light switch resistor, but I guess (even if cutout never closed) if all the gennys output current got somehow shorted/directed to the light switch resistor it could light it up?????

Take care yall

John T

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Janicholson

11-30-2005 11:08:15




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 Re: red hot resistor--update in reply to John T, 11-30-2005 04:42:05  
Just my thinking!!
The Gen. is isolated from all connections to the battery when the cut out relay is open, and there is no rotation of armature. The cutout relay is a 6.5v voltage sensitive (lots of turns) coil that is connected on the Gen side to the armature, and to ground on the Cutout Relay box. It also has a hold in winding that is heavy wire and connected to the contacts, through them when closed to the battery.
The cutout closes as residual magnetism in the field poles (reason for polarization) generates enough voltage in the armature to close the cutout relay through its small many turn winding to ground. When it closes, the battery is connected to the arm. windings. The field windings are in the circuit when the contacts are open providing another path to ground through the L H switch on the elect box. Current through the field also self excites the generator. If the field were internally shorted, the resistor would glow. In my opinion. Even if the contacts on the cutout never closed.
Very interesting, JimN

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John T

11-30-2005 13:00:46




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 Re: red hot resistor--update in reply to Janicholson, 11-30-2005 11:08:15  
Dang Jim, what did you have for breakfast, Wheaties or Smart Pills or what cuz I had to scratch my head when I read your post. True, myself n you n Bob find this interesting and the others probably think were Nerds, but my favorite daughter (now in Architecture College) has always thought I was a Nerd anyway. My first day at Purdue in the sixties, until I was told it wasnt cool, I carried my slide rule on my belt with its belt loop even, so I am a certifiable Nerd.

I take it youre looking at a situation where EVEN WITHOUT the cutout relay ever closing, the genny itslef could pump enought amps through the light switch resistor to make her glow. Okay, we would agree a genny belt driven on a bench (not within a mile of any battery) puts out current, so youre thinkin if theres insufficient net Field winding resistance it may be over currenting the light switch resistor n lighting her up, correct???? My best guess is the light switch resistor ohms is close to what the Field windings are, which is maybe in the 1.5 to 3 ohms range???? Anyone know?????

Hmmmmm mmm..... Well I cant find any flaw in your thinkin so I gotta agree I reckon.

Okay, I reckon if the Field were dead shorted to ground, however, current would go there INSTEAD OF via the higher resistance path of the switch resistor to ground.

THEREFORE If youre still thinking more of a winding to winding short versus a winding to case short as I considered way back when, I think thats making more n more sense now. I guess the critical thing would be, as I said before, is WHERE THE SHORT IS. If the short were in a location(s) whereby there was like NOOOOO current flow around the poles, the magnetic field would be very weak and the genny wouldnt be capable of pumping all that much through the light switch. However, if the Fields were shorted less severe (depends on location(s)) such that the magnetic strength were decent, there could be enough amps through the switch to over current it maybe????? ????? ?

Regardless where or how bad the short is or where, from what Alan said it does indeed look like some kind of a short is the problem. We may never know exactly the findings, but Ive enjoyed the ride regardless. If we had his genny on our own bench for 2 minuts armed with a Simpsom 260, I'm sure any of us would have the answer right off the bat, its harder over the dern net Eh.

Take care Jim n Bob, enjoyed the discussion

John T

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Janicholson

11-30-2005 13:26:36




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 Re: red hot resistor--update in reply to John T, 11-30-2005 13:00:46  
I'm a Professor in Technological Studies at St.Cloud State University. The thrill of remote analysis is almost as good as being there. I worked in the automotive field to fund my schooling doing everything from Dealer Prep to allison automatic transmissions, being a service manager, and electronics repair specialist. This is indeed fun.
My early electronics was with 12AX7, 6BQ5GT, and 50C5 "Valves". LOL
JimN

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John T

11-30-2005 14:08:03




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 Re: red hot resistor--update in reply to Janicholson, 11-30-2005 13:26:36  
You wanna talk "Valves" Ill show ya Valves. I have a big old heavy honkin Gribsy Grunow Majestic TRF Console Radio that has No 24 (only 4 pin I think) Valves and something like an 80 ??? rectifier?? My later Crosly Super 11 and Zenith Voice of the World Superhets have later model valves however like 6L6 push pull output amps.

I think Im gonna list it on Flea Bay its been in my way fer years.

John T

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Janicholson

11-30-2005 14:31:01




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 Re: red hot resistor--update in reply to John T, 11-30-2005 14:08:03  
I'm a youngun at ~56, so the funny shaped "bottles" were things we fixed up not built. I found out just how much 600 volts was when I played with the 60hz voice coil magnet on my granddad's RCA console. Yeeehawww.
JimN



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