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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Trouble Starting (49-M)

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fisherman

11-22-2005 07:04:57




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I had trouble starting my tractor (49 M) during the last cold spell. So, I waited till it warmed up to start the tractor and it worked after I tapped the battery connectors down some. I then decided to put new light bulbs because the tractor had burnt bulbs that were not for Dim and High. In doing this I replaced the wires from top two light with 14 gauge wire (one with black wire(right light) and one with red wire (left)- this is what was there before-very old and rough wiring.) The lights worked just great. I went out the next morning and the tractor started just fine but after working it during the morning it would not start again.

The tractor would not turn over. So I adjusted the battery cables but still nothing. I think the starter may have gone out. Every time, I would hit the starter the battery would pop. Since then I taken the battery off and charged it and I would like to get it going this afternoon.

First, When I bought the tractor it had a 12 volt battery attached. I assume this means it has been set up for a 12-volt conversion but please correct me if I am wrong, because I've never worked with either. I don’t know what sized battery cables I have but the metal to metal contact looks good. Also, the other wiring is all old, but looks good enough. Are there any suggestion to go through this step by step before I start looking for a starter.

Thank you help in advance. Scott

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John T

11-22-2005 10:55:01




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 Re: Trouble Starting (49-M) in reply to fisherman, 11-22-2005 07:04:57  
Fisher, the very first thing I would do is remove, clean n wire brush, then reattach each n every battery n starter n ground cable n have the battery well charged n see what happens. If no help, have the battery load tested or try a know good substitute battery. Its possible for old cables to look good outside, but theres been arcing and the resultant carbon which can mess them up even where not visible.

Another critical factor is the ground quality. The ground should be attached to a good clean (remove n wire brush n get a new bolt etc) frame type bolt as opposed to a thin or rusty sheet metal component. The closer to the starter the better.

On 6 volt systems I HIGHLY RECOMMEND the use of 00 or at least 0 Gauge cables. On 12 volt its still the bigger the better, but you can get by with 0 or even 1 or 2 Gauge BUT I WOULD NEVER USE LESS MYSELF. Whats you need to reduce is voltage drop across resistive cables such that the stored battery energy gets expended in the starter where its needed versus wastign it as heat energy across too small cables.

Sooooo oo once you have good cables,,,,, ,,a good battery,,,,, ,,,,, a good ground,,,,, ,see how she cranks. If when cranking the battery voltage drops drastically and/or the lights dim way badly, its possibe the starter is bad or maybe its mechanically stuck/jammed??? If thats the case, an engine rocking or loosening the starter may free it. HOWEVER if the battery voltage dont drop or lights dont dim much I would suspect a faulty starter switch or the starter contact.

As far as voltage,,,,, is the charging system keeping the battery up or you need to charge it now n then????? ?? Is there a working ammeter and does it swing to - discharge if you turn on lights or ignition not running but swing to + charge when running????? ? If so shes charging at 12 volts okay. If its charging, the battery voltage ought to read 12.6 volts sitting but rise to 13 and over at wide open and/or the lights glow noticeably brighter, does it do that????? If so, again, shes charging at 12 okay. Is it a genny or an alternator??? as most all alternators are 12 volts and negative ground.

If it were changed from 6 to 12 volts, the coil would need to be changed to a full 12 volt rated coil or else add a series voltage dropping (12 to 6) ballast resistor, otherwise, the coil will run hot and the points burn up prematurely. Whats your coil????? Have any external Ballast Resistor????? ?

If changed from pos to neg ground, the coil leads should be swapped so + is from switch and - to distributor, is yours?????

Sorry so many questions, but we gotta know this stuff to help you. Post back your findigns n answers n let us all know what happens. Good luck n God Bless

John T

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farmallhal

11-22-2005 10:14:36




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 Re: Trouble Starting (49-M) in reply to fisherman, 11-22-2005 07:04:57  
I saw your string with Bob M about the cables. Unless you get a quick response from Bob with another route just take your old cables with the types of terminals and the lengths you need to a really good auto parts or truck shop. They will make up new ones out of the cable size you desire. Welding cable is a lot easier to work with as it is finer wire and more pliable. I went through this at our local NAPA store several months ago and problem over. Hope this helps. Hal

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Bob M

11-22-2005 07:32:48




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 Re: Trouble Starting (49-M) in reply to fisherman, 11-22-2005 07:04:57  
That popping sound means you've got a bad connection at the battery. So before you do anything else, remove and THROW AWAY the old battery cables and replace 'em with new.

Old cables may still look OK on the outside but will be corroded way up under the insulation and/or have badly worn clamps. (The snapping sound is arcing at the clamp or up inside the insulation.)

Chances are fresh cables it will solve your problem. Only if it does not do you need to begin looking at the starter, starter switch, etc.

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fisherman

11-22-2005 07:58:48




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 Re: Trouble Starting (49-M) in reply to Bob M, 11-22-2005 07:32:48  
Thanks Bob,

As far as being a 12 volt conversion- is that assumsion correct, Also- is there a specific size of battery cables to buy?

Scott



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Bob M

11-22-2005 08:16:35




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 Re: Trouble Starting (49-M) in reply to fisherman, 11-22-2005 07:58:48  
Scott -

If the generator has been replaced with an alternator you can be virtually certain your tractor is now 12 volt, negative ground.

However if it's still got a generator determining voltage is a bit tougher. Sometimes the voltage regulator will be marked with the voltage - but unfortunately not always. If the generator has a fan integral with the drive pulley it is not original and is likely 12 volt. (However there are also a few fanless 12 volt generators out there. So not having a generator fan is not conclusive.)

----

With a 12 volt system you will get by just fine with the 6 ga replacement battery cables like sold at AutoZone, Advance, etc. Otherwise you will need a minimum of 2 ga cables - which incidentally are not generally stocked at most discount parts places.

Bob

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fisherman

11-22-2005 08:31:58




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 Re: Trouble Starting (49-M) in reply to Bob M, 11-22-2005 08:16:35  
I will need to look at it, but I do know that the positive is grounded. Would I be able to find the 2 guage connector at TSC? scott



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Bob M

11-22-2005 14:14:07




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 Re: Trouble Starting (49-M) in reply to fisherman, 11-22-2005 08:31:58  
Scott - Tisco should have 2 ga cables. Curiously our local Advance Auto (which serves the local farming country) does too.

Another alternative is to visit your local welding supplier. They can make up 2 ga (and heavier) cables with terminals in short order - though probably at higher cost than Tisco, etc.



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old

11-22-2005 07:17:19




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 Re: Trouble Starting (49-M) in reply to fisherman, 11-22-2005 07:04:57  
I'd pull the starter and do a bench test just to make sure its not another problem. It could also be a stuck starter drive in the flywheel which would also cause that problem. Pulling the starter would fix the stuck drive. Also fix the battery cable ends because that is part of what cause the starter drive problems. Clean,tite, and bright with all wires is a rule of tumb.



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